Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[HSi-ESi]

The only thing Gerald forgets is that he does not have to first build the house, then wait to see if any perspective buyers draw a lottery license to purchase said home.

This lottery was more for the buyers than sellers.

https://missoulacurrent.com/business/2021/02/hellgate-village-homes/

 

[The Hedgehog]

That would be why I called it "our wildlife", meaning all of us in Eastern Mt who live here. Stay in Bozeman and keep "your elk" and leave "our mule deer alone", I will make an exception for you, a former North Easterner displaced to the far left side of the state.

Ran into some guys from Butte last night. I asked them why they were hunting bears here and not near Butte - as sometimes I head that way to hunt bears. I was only curious. The bears are no more mine or theirs, where ever.

 

[Eric Albus]

How you can lay claim to wildlife you don't pay to manage is still a mystery...and as hypocritical as it gets.

When you and your outfitter buddies actually start paying for some management, you may have something to complain about in regard to Montana R and NR hunters taking "their wildlife", until then go find another shoulder to cry on...

I usually hunt NW Montana on public land, may start heading east and hunting MY wildlife over that way for a while.

I don't "lay claim to wildlife".

Who do you think is paying for the wildlife management on our lands? Elk/deer/antelope/birds all eat for no cost? They able to convert air into calories? You can't really be as ignorant as you let on.

Come on over, take a number and stand in line with the rest of DIY America. Don't expect to go anywhere and not see hunting boot prints in the dust.

Ran into some guys from Butte last night. I asked them why they were hunting bears here and not near Butte - as sometimes I head that way to hunt bears. I was only curious. The bears are no more mine or theirs, where eve

That is correct, those bears are not yours, you still have mule deer that are yours in NE Mt.

 

[BuzzH]

The whole thing is easier to solve than many believe. My hope is through this commission we will see biological management of deer and elk in general season areas. In my microcosm the public lands are generally superior mule deer habitat. Very little needs be done habitat wise. There are far to many people competing for far to little resource. 1000 yard rifles, spotting scopes that rival Hubble, UTV’s, the game has no advantage.

Quite whining about too many people and too little resource...you and your ilk just added another 3k to the problem.

Didn't blink an eye "caring" about "your wildlife" you don't spend a penny funding the management of, when you did that.

 

[Eric Albus]

Quite whining about too many people and too little resource...you and your ilk just added another 3k to the problem.

Didn't blink an eye "caring" about "your wildlife" you don't spend a penny funding the management of, when you did that.

Don't think for a minute that I like the fact there will be approx. 3k more ppl. here hunting.

Whose penny did I spend when planting feed and cover for deer/birds? When I look at my check stubs seems several thousand dollars go out each year to feed and house wildlife. I suppose I don't buy ammo/license/donated tens of thousands in the form of guided hunts to organizations either. Would you like a list of all the hunts I've donated the last 20yrs. to conservation organizations? If you want to have a peter measuring contest over who gives more bring it on.

 

[WIbiggame]

Don't think for a minute that I like the fact there will be approx. 3k more ppl. here hunting.

So you didn't take any clients who benefitted from these tags correct?

 

[shoots-straight]

I'm all for market driven licenses. Cut the Nr licenses in half and double the price. Win win for the state.

Don't think for a minute that I like the fact there will be approx. 3k more ppl. here hunting.

Whose penny did I spend when planting feed and cover for deer/birds? When I look at my check stubs seems several thousand dollars go out each year to feed and house wildlife. I suppose I don't buy ammo/license/donated tens of thousands in the form of guided hunts to organizations either. Would you like a list of all the hunts I've donated the last 20yrs. to conservation organizations? If you want to have a peter measuring contest over who gives more bring it on.

Outfitters in General is what Buzz is talking about. WE (the resident sportsmen of Montana) rarely, if ever see MOGA anywhere except when it comes to sticking their hands out. Never do they show up for the resource. They do show up to promote predator killing.

 

[BuzzH]

Don't think for a minute that I like the fact there will be approx. 3k more ppl. here hunting.

Whose penny did I spend when planting feed and cover for deer/birds? When I look at my check stubs seems several thousand dollars go out each year to feed and house wildlife. I suppose I don't buy ammo/license/donated tens of thousands in the form of guided hunts to organizations either. Would you like a list of all the hunts I've donated the last 20yrs. to conservation organizations? If you want to have a peter measuring contest over who gives more bring it on.

How much have you provided to the MTFWP for management...not self-serving planting (that's probably subsidized) and tax write-offs.

BTW...care to show us the letter you wrote to Gianforte to veto the 3k tags? Provide the letter you wrote to MOGA opposing it?

I won't wait on seeing a copy.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Whose penny did I spend when planting feed and cover for deer/birds? When I look at my check stubs seems several thousand dollars go out each year to feed and house wildlife.

Kudos to you; good on you.
Your farmer / rancher predecessors who broke the land and settled to make a living in ag lived with the healthy attitude that wildlife came with the land opportunity and should be welcomed. They truly appreciated wildlife ... but not for the outfitter commercial value of the critters. I'm sure they cussed at the fence and crop damage, but just assumed it came with the opportunity to farm/ranch the habitat.

 

[BWALKER77]

I bet you're just a load of fun on a hunting trip. Do you count the number of squares of TP each person gets?

For me, hunting is not just hunting, its also a vacation. When I hunt as a NR part of the trip for me is to explore other places. I like to hit up local coffee shops, restaurants, etc. and chat up the locals. Sometimes, if I get done with a hunt early, I might stay another day or two spending money along the way. I've purchased artwork from local galleries on hunts, coffee cups from all over where I've hunted, T-shirts, hats, even spotted seal skin hats/slippers on a musk ox hunt, etc. etc. etc.

Pretty rare bird when I fill up at a gas station when I don't buy some junk food of some sort when on hunts.

I usually stay in a hotel going and coming home if the drive is much over 10 hours.

I almost always run out of stuff, forget something, and have to run into the nearest town to buy supplies, fuel, etc.

Some hunts, it makes more sense to just stay in a hotel than drag all my camping crap along, do that too.

Life's too short to do a hunt where I'm pinching pennies...

I have more money than I have time. As such when I load up at home I drive straight through to where I am going. No wasted time shopping, wandering around hippie shops, bar hopping etc.
The less time I spend messing around the more time I can spend scouting and hunting. Pretty simple concept.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The whole thing is easier to solve than many believe. My hope is through this commission we will see biological management of deer and elk in general season areas. In my microcosm the public lands are generally superior mule deer habitat. Very little needs be done habitat wise. There are far to many people competing for far to little resource. 1000 yard rifles, spotting scopes that rival Hubble, UTV’s, the game has no advantage.

The commission tried that over & over in places like the Paradise, only to have MOGA organize against it because it would have meant a slight decrease in the number of bulls taken.

The Commission tried that in 2008 with the bundled permits in the breaks. MOGA & other outfitters worked to undermine that, and in fact still do, at the legislative level.

The Legislature this session tried to pass laws that would have made the UTV issue far, would have opened up tons of miles in Roadless & possibly even Wilderness Areas for motorized use, and they tried to say E-bikes weren't motorized, so they can be on every trail. Don't think MOGA took positions on those bills.

Now, we have seasons set in statute, some of which MOGA supported. So no changing those at all, or FWP will be faced with a lawsuit.

You think it would be easy, but the last 25 years tells a completely different tale. The Legislature, often either through the request of MOGA or through their support, has been making minced meat out Title 87 since before I started working in that space in 2009.

The reality is that the new commission will look at it, and punt in favor of what FWP brings forward. If you want to change how MT structures seasons, you need a lot more than just some whacks at it during tentatives.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Don't think for a minute that I like the fact there will be approx. 3k more ppl. here hunting.

Whose penny did I spend when planting feed and cover for deer/birds? When I look at my check stubs seems several thousand dollars go out each year to feed and house wildlife. I suppose I don't buy ammo/license/donated tens of thousands in the form of guided hunts to organizations either. Would you like a list of all the hunts I've donated the last 20yrs. to conservation organizations? If you want to have a peter measuring contest over who gives more bring it on.

The funds you spent on crops/plantings/cover, etc are all write offs. That's a Cost of Doing Business. You also had the choice to not do so, so complaining that you're spending money to increase wildlife on your property while complaining that they eat what you provide seems strange.

And according the Montana constitution and several case laws, wildlife exist as a condition of the land. They were here before you, and you can't claim them. FWP does have to make some accomodation when wildlife causes damage, but the law on that is clear as well. If you work wit hthe agency, they will work with you. But what it ultimately seems to boil down to is transferable tags/privatizing wildlife for the elites/tags for outfitters to make money off of.

All three of those violate the spirit of the public trust.

 

[tjones]

At least Big Shooter knew when to quit digging.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Looking at elk populations in MT from 2010 to 2020, there are approximately 20,000 more elk now than then.

So here's my compromise: 2,000 more NR B-10 Licenses. No set-asides, no special handshake BS - just a straight allocation of about 10% of the resource for NR's. We can rewrite statute so that the amount of NR opportunity always hangs at 10% based on population modeling.

Increase the B-11 to 8600 total and eliminate the deer resale of the B-10. You want to help deer? Cut NR tag opportunity by eliminating that B-10 resell. I'm fine with more LE areas for deer & certainly fine with less hammering of mule deer during the rut & on does. Or we can fix it to 10% of the Deer population based on region. But that would require FWP to actually count deer.

 

[Big Shooter]

At least Big Shooter knew when to quit digging.

Don’t worry pal....I’m just reading all of this now as I left this morning about 5 to go brand. Im just trying to process all of the BS rhetoric some of you spew. I asked a question the other day on a group chat that consists of about 6 of us Outfitters: “At the end of the day, what do you suppose the haters (being most of you on here) stand to gain if outfitters were to go away?” There are some very intelligent and successful people on that group chat and no one could answer the question rationally. The hatred that some of you have for our industry is absolutely unfu@#ing believable!! The only answer that I could come up with is access......plain and simple. I hate to be the bearer of bad news....but that ship has done sailed. I actually enjoy visiting with nonresident DIY hunters when I run into them in the fall......for the most part. Not afraid one bit to try and point them in the right direction, have even let some stay the night when the weather was terrible and the roads sucked and they couldn‘t get back to where they were staying, free of charge. Not an issue. I think Eric mentioned it once on here, but if it wasn’t for outfitters and landowners taking care of and managing game, it would all look like the overcrowded public and BM. Don‘t get me wrong, there are bad apples in our industry as well that give us all black eyes, I get that. This fighting and stone throwing BS has gotten out of hand!! Grow the f@$k up and quit throwing your suckers in the dirt!!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

The hatred that some of you have for our industry is absolutely unfu@#ing believable!!

No hatred at all.

Grow the fu$k up yourself.

 

[tjones]

At least Big Shooter knew when to quit digging.

Guess not.

 

[Big Shooter]

No hatred at all.

Grow the fu$k up yourself.

Great come back! If all of you only knew how we got 637 (Eric does), you would prolapse and there would be a lynching of one of your own and goddamn would it be good watching.

 

[mtmuley]

Swirling....... mtmuley

 

[Big Shooter]

Guess not.

LOL! I’m not afraid! Maybe stupid to keep digging.....but not afraid.