MT EQC to determine corner crossing as "illegal"

[GearJunky]

Got a response from my note. Seems he comes right out and continues to lie. It has alwasy been a grey area and never been illegal.

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Thank you for reaching out to me about corner crossing. I appreciate hearing from you and value your input.

Our Montana way of life is second to none, and our rich outdoor heritage makes Montana a great place to live and raise a family. As governor, I’ve worked to protect our public lands and increase public access to more than 250,000 acres since taking office in 2021. While we cherish public access, a recent court ruling in Wyoming has caused confusion and led some to believe that so-called “corner crossing” is legal in Montana.

Despite these claims, corner crossing is not legal in Montana and remains a trespass. As such, Montanans who seek to corner cross must get permission from landowners to cross privately-owned land. This policy is not new. For years, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has stated that corner crossing remains illegal in Montana, under both Republican and Democrat administrations.

Thank you again for reaching out. Hearing from you and other Montanans helps me better serve you and better understand your perspective. I will continue to rely on your views as I lead Montana, which is my great honor. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me for anything. My door is always open.

Sincerely,

Greg Gianforte
Governor

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Got a response from my note. Seems he comes right out and continues to lie. It has alwasy been a grey area and never been illegal.

--------------------
Thank you for reaching out to me about corner crossing. I appreciate hearing from you and value your input.

Our Montana way of life is second to none, and our rich outdoor heritage makes Montana a great place to live and raise a family. As governor, I’ve worked to protect our public lands and increase public access to more than 250,000 acres since taking office in 2021. While we cherish public access, a recent court ruling in Wyoming has caused confusion and led some to believe that so-called “corner crossing” is legal in Montana.

Despite these claims, corner crossing is not legal in Montana and remains a trespass. As such, Montanans who seek to corner cross must get permission from landowners to cross privately-owned land. This policy is not new. For years, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has stated that corner crossing remains illegal in Montana, under both Republican and Democrat administrations.

Thank you again for reaching out. Hearing from you and other Montanans helps me better serve you and better understand your perspective. I will continue to rely on your views as I lead Montana, which is my great honor. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me for anything. My door is always open.

Sincerely,

Greg Gianforte
Governor

Yet you have warden's stating FWP policy for 20+ years has been to not write a ticket for corner crossing. I have a hard time believing that no one in the history of the great state of Montana, has not gotten caught corner crossing, yet the fact remains - zero prosecutions.

 

[Gulf of America]

Got a response from my note. Seems he comes right out and continues to lie. It has alwasy been a grey area and never been illegal.

--------------------
Thank you for reaching out to me about corner crossing. I appreciate hearing from you and value your input.

Our Montana way of life is second to none, and our rich outdoor heritage makes Montana a great place to live and raise a family. As governor, I’ve worked to protect our public lands and increase public access to more than 250,000 acres since taking office in 2021. While we cherish public access, a recent court ruling in Wyoming has caused confusion and led some to believe that so-called “corner crossing” is legal in Montana.

Despite these claims, corner crossing is not legal in Montana and remains a trespass. As such, Montanans who seek to corner cross must get permission from landowners to cross privately-owned land. This policy is not new. For years, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has stated that corner crossing remains illegal in Montana, under both Republican and Democrat administrations.

Thank you again for reaching out. Hearing from you and other Montanans helps me better serve you and better understand your perspective. I will continue to rely on your views as I lead Montana, which is my great honor. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me for anything. My door is always open.

Sincerely,

Greg Gianforte
Governor

I got the same response.

 

[BuzzH]

Got a response from my note. Seems he comes right out and continues to lie. It has alwasy been a grey area and never been illegal.

--------------------
Thank you for reaching out to me about corner crossing. I appreciate hearing from you and value your input.

Our Montana way of life is second to none, and our rich outdoor heritage makes Montana a great place to live and raise a family. As governor, I’ve worked to protect our public lands and increase public access to more than 250,000 acres since taking office in 2021. While we cherish public access, a recent court ruling in Wyoming has caused confusion and led some to believe that so-called “corner crossing” is legal in Montana.

Despite these claims, corner crossing is not legal in Montana and remains a trespass. As such, Montanans who seek to corner cross must get permission from landowners to cross privately-owned land. This policy is not new. For years, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has stated that corner crossing remains illegal in Montana, under both Republican and Democrat administrations.

Thank you again for reaching out. Hearing from you and other Montanans helps me better serve you and better understand your perspective. I will continue to rely on your views as I lead Montana, which is my great honor. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me for anything. My door is always open.

Sincerely,

Greg Gianforte
Governor

Trapping wolves without the required course has always been illegal as well as killing a spike bull in a brow-tined only area...but that didn't slow GG down any. Pretty sure assault has also been illegal too, but again, that didn't slow him down any.

Not sure why he would be concerning himself with the grey area of corner crossing?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Anyone goto the landboard meeting?

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Trapping wolves without the required course has always been illegal as well as killing a spike bull in a brow-tined only area...but that didn't slow GG down any. Pretty sure assault has also been illegal too, but again, that didn't slow him down any.

Not sure why he would be concerning himself with the grey area of corner crossing?

This is gold. Thank you.

 

[Hammsolo]

Got a response from my note. Seems he comes right out and continues to lie. It has alwasy been a grey area and never been illegal.

--------------------
Thank you for reaching out to me about corner crossing. I appreciate hearing from you and value your input.

Our Montana way of life is second to none, and our rich outdoor heritage makes Montana a great place to live and raise a family. As governor, I’ve worked to protect our public lands and increase public access to more than 250,000 acres since taking office in 2021. While we cherish public access, a recent court ruling in Wyoming has caused confusion and led some to believe that so-called “corner crossing” is legal in Montana.

Despite these claims, corner crossing is not legal in Montana and remains a trespass. As such, Montanans who seek to corner cross must get permission from landowners to cross privately-owned land. This policy is not new. For years, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has stated that corner crossing remains illegal in Montana, under both Republican and Democrat administrations.

Thank you again for reaching out. Hearing from you and other Montanans helps me better serve you and better understand your perspective. I will continue to rely on your views as I lead Montana, which is my great honor. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me for anything. My door is always open.

Sincerely,

Greg Gianforte
Governor

Same response for me. It doesn’t reference any policy or law. I’ve requested their rationale, and legal justification.

 

[Wildabeest]

Same response for me. It doesn’t reference any policy or law. I’ve requested their rationale, and legal justification.

It’s illegal for them to respond to you more than once. At least that’s what they’ll claim.

 

[Hammsolo]

My response to Gianforte.

Good Morning,

Thank you for your timely form response. Many of my friends received the same. Your third paragraph makes a claim of “illegal.” Please share the policies, and legal precedent to justify this response. Personally, I do not know of said laws or policies. Since you value my views I look forward to hearing a detailed explanation justifying your last response.

Thank you, Nick

 

[SAJ-99]

Same response for me. It doesn’t reference any policy or law. I’ve requested their rationale, and legal justification.

He stated it was considered trespass, even if they stepped over the pin. I can’t remember the exact law, but they exist. Violation of “airspace” or something, which was created to prevent drones from peering in windows. I believe trespass is what the ticket (past or future) would be written for, but it would take some work to determine if any of the past tickets were truly a CC.

 

[Hammsolo]

He stated it was considered trespass, even if they stepped over the pin. I can’t remember the exact law, but they exist. Violation of “airspace” or something, which was created to prevent drones from peering in windows. I believe trespass is what the ticket (past or future) would be written for, but it would take some work to determine if any of the past tickets were truly a CC.

Stepped? That is different than corner crossing. Semantics matter. How much of the air space is owned? What does a drone in someone’s yard have to do with crossing a corner of properties?

I’ve been researching the last few days. It’s still a “grey” area. The reference to the 200 foot drone law is a reach. In property law there’s no fixed number of feet for air space in Montana.

I’m going to invent a human catapult/parachute system that all straps to your back.

 

[seeth07]

I’m going to invent a human catapult/parachute system that all straps to your back.

Don't need to. There are already drones out there that can lift and move a 300# payload. There are models in the 5k-10k range now and given that folks are willing to easily drop that on a wheeler or UTV when they go out west, it won't be long until everywhere is showing up with these drones to get them in and out of places.

 

[Robg2]

He stated it was considered trespass, even if they stepped over the pin. I can’t remember the exact law, but they exist. Violation of “airspace” or something, which was created to prevent drones from peering in windows. I believe trespass is what the ticket (past or future) would be written for, but it would take some work to determine if any of the past tickets were truly a CC.

I can think of two cases of CC in Park county (Livingston area). The first one was thrown out with the county attorney saying corner crossing wouldn’t be prosecuted. A later case was not prosecuted based on the aforementioned case. Here is a good read from BHA:

Park County Court Cases Testing Boundaries Of Public Access, Private Property Rights

By Rachel Cramer - February 28th, 2020 - Originally published at Montana Public Radio March 1 kicks off the new license year for Montana hunters, many of whom will rely on public land to punch their tags. Some of them say large, out-of-state ranch owners are making it harder to get to their...

www.backcountryhunters.org

 

[TOGIE]

Don't need to. There are already drones out there that can lift and move a 300# payload. There are models in the 5k-10k range now and given that folks are willing to easily drop that on a wheeler or UTV when they go out west, it won't be long until everywhere is showing up with these drones to get them in and out of places.

i do wonder, regardless of state trespass and private property issues, if such an action would put the hunter into a new FAA classification of being an unlicensed pilot of a piloted aircraft and would be a violation of probably numerous FAA rules and laws.

just an interesting untested arena that i'm sure will be clashed with and clarified before long.

 

[seeth07]

i do wonder, regardless of state trespass and private property issues, if such an action would put the hunter into a new FAA classification of being an unlicensed pilot of a piloted aircraft and would be a violation of probably numerous FAA rules and laws.

just an interesting untested arena that i'm sure will be clashed with and clarified before long.

Look into what is required to fly an ultralight. I don't see how it would be much different.

Per the FAA: Part 103 - Must weigh under 254 pounds and carry only 5 gallons of fuel. These meet both easily.

 

[TOGIE]

Look into what is required to fly an ultralight. I don't see how it would be much different.

Per the FAA: Part 103 - Must weigh under 254 pounds and carry only 5 gallons of fuel. These meet both easily.

I mean I don’t know myself but AI tells me there aren’t any existing sub 254 lb drones that could carry a 200 lb dude not even including supplies.

I mean I really don’t care. It’s just an interesting unknown arena that regardless I’m sure the FAA would clamp down on if it started happening a lot

 

[SAJ-99]

Stepped? That is different than corner crossing.

How is that different?

The reference to the 200 foot drone law is a reach.

Reach or not, IMO that is what a case will be about. It was passed in Senate bill 493 (MCA 45-6-210) last year and Juras brought it up (not saying it applies, but she thinks it does). She is going to say the law says private property goes up 200 ft and going through it (person or drone) is criminal trespass. Interesting to see if the counter would be a) that only applies to drones, or b) If private property extends up into the air, can the illegality of crossing it be viewed as unlawfully enclosing the public land? I don't think we are at that point yet, at least not in this case. Clear as mud.

UPOM summarized their view in link below, which FWP is simply reiterating. Part 1 should be noted that in US v. Causby SCOTUS acknowledged that a property line doesn't extend to the end of the universe, however airspace can be private property and can be "taken". Defining the "taking" is difficult.

Corner Trespass – UPOM

 

[seeth07]

I mean I don’t know myself but AI tells me there aren’t any existing sub 254 lb drones that could carry a 200 lb dude not even including supplies.

I mean I really don’t care. It’s just an interesting unknown arena that regardless I’m sure the FAA would clamp down on if it started happening a lot

Griff is a top of the line one and one of the first to venture into the larger sector. The model to carry 300# I believe is right around 150#. Their line of drones used to be like 200k but those prices are falling fast as the drone market is exploding with options. Our company just bought one for our surveying group and it was only 70k to carry their gear into remote backwoods areas and a few other practical uses. I did a little digging myself and you can find deals for much less now this year.

 

[TOGIE]

Griff is a top of the line one and one of the first to venture into the larger sector. The model to carry 300# I believe is right around 150#. Their line of drones used to be like 200k but those prices are falling fast as the drone market is exploding with options. Our company just bought one for our surveying group and it was only 70k to carry their gear into remote backwoods areas and a few other practical uses. I did a little digging myself and you can find deals for much less now this year.

Yeah, I don't doubt any of that.

Just sure seems like uncharted waters not explicitly contemplated in current FAA regulations. Like 5 lbs of fuel? How do you convert that to battery fuel? So if loop holes exist for retrofitting drones as little piloted aircraft I'd imagine the FAA would want to take a look at it.