Montana - Time to Shake it Up?
- Thread starter Big Fin
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Did anybody get body slammed?
Gerald Martin
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No body slamming, just some great consensus on the main issues mule deer face and the issues we felt like we have the best chance of bringing beneficial solutions to the table.
Fleshing out those solutions is an ongoing
work in progress that is going to take some time to hone.
Visiting Hunter
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I don't disagree with you, this is just my experience and thoughts... when I called a GW this past season to check his system for me on a peice of property. We ended up discussing deer and elk in Montana. In doing so, what he said was interesting to me. He was really a good guy to chat with. But he said "we don't manage for trophy potential in most cases, we manage for opportunities." And he asked "have I had any trouble finding deer or elk this year?" I say something along the lines of "no I have seen alot. Just nothing I'm really itching to chase after besides two. I have the time off this season and I'm looking for a decent buck this year.. And one is a whitetail I seen on this state property I'm having you look at. To see how or if I can access it."
Long story short I didn't have any trouble finding animals this last season. The trouble was finding anything 150 or better. Whitetail or muley. Elk I hunt cows or spikes so I don't usually have a super hard time chasing those.. I can't say for everyone or every region but I hunted region 6 4 and 3 and all had good numbers of deer. Region 3 helena being the worst.. still find plenty around there too at the end of the day though.
He asked would you rather opportunities taken away for trophies or be able to hunt more and have more days out and more tags? And it made me think, and I really would just rather be out there more then anything. So that's just my prospective.
Long story short I didn't have any trouble finding animals this last season. The trouble was finding anything 150 or better. Whitetail or muley. Elk I hunt cows or spikes so I don't usually have a super hard time chasing those.. I can't say for everyone or every region but I hunted region 6 4 and 3 and all had good numbers of deer. Region 3 helena being the worst.. still find plenty around there too at the end of the day though.
He asked would you rather opportunities taken away for trophies or be able to hunt more and have more days out and more tags? And it made me think, and I really would just rather be out there more then anything. So that's just my prospective.
Most of this arguing isn’t even about trophy potential. It’s about fwp not giving a shit about managing a resource. Region 7 mule deer numbers 50% of the 10 year average yet we continue on business as usual pumping out doe tags.
Visiting Hunter
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I haven't hunted in region 7, but I did mention what regions I did hunt. My statement still stands true for all those regions. I saw great numbers this past season, both mule deer and whitetail. More whitetail in certain areas and more mule deer in certain areas. One spot in region 6 was completely overrun with people and I still would glass 20 muleys up within 2 hours, then a group of people would go chase a young buck down... I don't know, I'm not saying the argument is wrong or I don't agree with it making sense to manage more by region, but it surely is walking a fine line of taking opportunities away. I didn't have any issue finding a deer. If they are truly managing for opportunities like GW said, I had hundreds this last season. I chose not to harvest anything as we have enough elk to last. Also wasn't seeing a huge variation in age class. I saw some variation a couple nicer ones but far from old. but mainly the younger bucks and does. I live in region 3 and love hunting it. But I had time off to burn so I spent 3 weeks solid in regions 6 and 4.
After traveling and going over the old stomping grounds, my true only recommendation, and I support NR hunting. I don't really know how feasible it is, but region 3 where I hunt largely over the last 15-20 years, you may find a few NR throughout the season, but not hundreds. I always heard the frustrations from NR hunting. My only frustration is that you all cluster like your home states only have a few public or small public... montana is huge use it all... From my observation, the NR pound that section of the state. I stayed in Glasgow for a couple nights and the hotel was packed and 70-80 percent were NR. I don't know if the forums/online chatter make them think they are going to only find quality deer in the breaks or the area around it. Yes, we all know how famous it is. The NR guys have to spread out a bit more, use the whole state and not just constantly hound one section of the state. And maybe that's everyone maybe residents too as a resident I usually dont travel super far and hunt areas around home maybe you all travel alot more then me. Maybe the general is just to wide open for people to pick anywhere... The pressure out there was so much more than I was expecting. I was expecting a lot but not what it is. If we issue 17,000 NR tags, we can't have 10,000 NR in the same area of the state. Yes, I know that's skewed, I'm driving to work and don't have speices tags pulled up etc., but you get the gist. It's been a good solid 20 years since I've been back that way for a hunt. I visit family or fish, but haven't made it for a hunt in too long. But I was somewhat blown away that all the pressure for deer is concentrated on that side of the state. I just say spread out a little more and stop hounding that side of the state. Again, this is nothing for region 7 because I can't speak on something I haven't hunted. I have a brother-in-law who grew up in Miles City and said it has really gone to shit. But I haven't even been that far east in I can't even remember the last time, probably wrestling 20 some years ago. I just personally think it's a little more fun when the age class isn't all the same on the landscape. But his statement stood true to me. I had hundreds of opportunities at little guys land a few opportunities at some younger 4points. Just the overall numbers were satisfactory in my opinion. Again just from what I seen this last season. It's all pretty anecdotal. Just my observations. Driving to work so I apologize if something doesn't make sense.
We could move the season to the month of October and still give the same “opportunity” for hunters to take their rifle for a walk and give all those young bucks a better chance of not being shot during the rut when they are probably the easiest big game animal to kill during that timeframe.
huntin24/7
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In the end, I think most people don’t just want opportunity. They want easy opportunity. That same younger buck is available to hunt in October, but it’s not sniffing a doe 200 yards off the road. Some hiking and glassing is required then.
Gerald Martin
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If opportunity is defined as hiking with your rifle looking at lots of does and young bucks you aren’t going to shoot then Montana already allows for that 365 days a year. You can carry the rifle for coyotes and watch deer and elk all year long.
Post season buck/doe ratios of less than 10/100 and age classes of deer where very few bucks live past 3 1/2 years doesn’t seem like good resource management to me.
Neither does FWP still issuing doe tags for public land in regions where populations are trending downward and where more than 50% of all buck harvest is from NR hunters.
“Opportunity” is an arbitrary definition without defined parameters. As @Visiting Hunter pointed out, there were only two bucks that he was aware of all year that he would have been interested in shooting yet he thought he had hundreds of opportunities. That doesn’t really sound like opportunity to me. That sound like looking for needles that may not even be in the haystack.
Post season buck/doe ratios of less than 10/100 and age classes of deer where very few bucks live past 3 1/2 years doesn’t seem like good resource management to me.
Neither does FWP still issuing doe tags for public land in regions where populations are trending downward and where more than 50% of all buck harvest is from NR hunters.
“Opportunity” is an arbitrary definition without defined parameters. As @Visiting Hunter pointed out, there were only two bucks that he was aware of all year that he would have been interested in shooting yet he thought he had hundreds of opportunities. That doesn’t really sound like opportunity to me. That sound like looking for needles that may not even be in the haystack.
The Hedgehog
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It’s impossible to explain to a dipshit that they don’t need a fanny pack full of tags and seasons that span nearly half the year to enjoy “being out there.”
Their “prospective” is to blame the “trophy” guys for wanting to take away their opportunities. Lights are on - nobody’s home.
They’re all over MT, and I’ve noticed an infiltration to this hunting forum. Their thoughts are we should be grateful and “appreciate” the extra low level of quality wildlife being present on public land.
sclancy27
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I think the people describing "opportunity" are the same ones describing "access" as something they can drive a vehicle into. The more I talk with average people the more I think the sledding is steeper and steeper uphill.
Visiting Hunter
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I guess I never thought of it like that... "easy opportunity" I will think about that a bit at work today.
Visiting Hunter
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Yeah I guess the satire went over everyone's head.
Gerald Martin
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It must have gone over mine as well. Are you saying your posts describing your opportunities last year were satire? It came across as you being pleased with your season and the opportunities FWP provided.
Guess it was to early this morning when I read it because I missed that as well
Visiting Hunter
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Sure it can be arbitrary if your making it. What do I mean by opportunity in this case? Being able to harvest deer, plain and simple. Yes they could have been in the freezer, I saw a lot of one and two year old bucks, a moderate amount of small 3 and 4 points, and two nice bucks - probably not even super old, maybe 3 or 4 years.. And tons and tons of does. I just had some time off this season and wanted to go around where I grew up. Sorry for sharing my observations, lol. And what the GW said lined up with what I saw.. You all are wacky in here.
What I saw and what you are all trying to say 10 bucks to 100 does just isn't lining up for me in regions 3 4 and 6 atleast. But carry on. I'm listening.
I don’t know what to tell everyone who is not seeing deer. I saw a lot. Maybe you should get out from behind the windshield.
We do hunt for coyotes, gophers, turkey, some waterfowl, bear, deer and elk. Fish more then my wife says is healthy. I guess I don’t hunt for lions. I don’t know anyone with dogs and I’m not willing to pay for a lion hunt. I guess I haven't ever delibertly hunted for wolves either. My bad. Grab the tag but dont exclusively search for wolves if the opportunity came around sure. I mean I take my bow out too just for more opportunities Lol you can all try and read between the lines like you all seem to do. And pick it apart. Simply the opportunities to harvest are there like GW said. I do what I can to be in the woods so I have those opportunities. with my family and work schedule. And I feel fortunate enough to be able to go out without using vacation time since I'm flat rate I get to work when I want too. Take the time off I want too without using paid time. And be able to make it up or do it ahead of time. And aquire alot of paid time off to spend out doing what I enjoy. But you can all assume all you want. Your all out in the cabbage.
You walk a fine line of taking away things and never getting them back. Just be careful what you wish for.
Visiting Hunter
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Ebike thread. @sclancy27 is what he's referring too. About access... i started my account and came in created a wild satire article and went with it for a full day. I knew being new I figured everyone was gonna have a good laugh.. I figured it would have just died there...
This was last season. I wasn't super satisfied not seeing different age class's but by what GW said they manage for It was in that sense yes.. I was satisfied in the sense I found animals everyday. But didn't matter how far in I went It was all similar in sizes. Or how far away I got. That didn't really seem to matter. One of the bigger 4x4 I seen was hanging out next to a guy's camp when he must have been away. I dunno all I was saying is I seen a assload of deer last season.
BuzzH
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I think you better get used to this kind of management.
If you read the stuff on CWD, this will put Montana in the perfect place management wise, actually well ahead of the curve.
I was in a small meeting with the CWD experts in Wyoming about a year ago along with our area biologists and this is exactly what they want. And, exactly what they're going to do.
I was able to put if off for a couple years, but they just completed an "attitude" survey and are going to, no doubt, claim they have broad public support for killing off mule deer bucks in the rut, low buck to doe ratios, and decreased total populations.
I'm done fighting it...I'll just apply for some of the late season rut hunts and let the "good times" roll. You know, because its best for the resource.
The Hedgehog
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I carefully wish the things that were “taken away” over the course of the last 30 years could come back - but the dipshits that can’t see past their own mildly retarded hunting harmony outnumber those of us out in the cabbage.
Visiting Hunter
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this dipshit eats elk and deer. So this dipshit does need a fanny pack full. Do I need half the year no... is it more enjoyable absolutely yes. 2019 my oldest was born didn't have alot of free time. 2 elk and 3 deer in 4 days. Doesn't make it any more enjoyable to hussle threw it to get it done.
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