Montana referendum

[schmalts]

It's good to see some Resident guys who actually admit the rest of the state's hunters are too damn cheap and are hurting themselves. The nonres tag prices are getting out of reach for many the way it is and the economy isn't helping. I would hate to see younger hunters get shut out from prices alone. If the prices go up more, think of what it will cost along for a father and son to come out there and hunt. Hell, they will all have to be driving Budget rental trucks
Lots of guys on this forum agree the resident prices are embarrassing, thanks for the honest and thoughtful logic, we need more of it in all states.
I like What Randy once said, some states that apply such unfair rules should have the reciprocal tag fees and rules applied to them as nonresidents. A guy from WY want to come to MT, sure, but a price hike and he has to hire a guide to hunt wilderness. Want to hunt sheep in MT and you are from AK? You have to hire a guide as well. Want to come to WI from MT to hunt deer (like you would ever want to) you pay 20X more than a resident for a tag. It would be interesting to see what reactions rules like that would get.

 

[belly-deep]

Its hard to say whether or not an increase in resident licenses would actually equate to a sufficient revenue replacement.

As it now stands, the NR licenses have a demand that is higher than the output--more apply or buy tags than there are tags available.

But the resident licenses are unlimited or nearly so in many cases. For example, say you sell 10,000 tags of a certain type to residents....will you still sell 10,000 tags when they cost more? Probably not. I think the FWP gets quite a bit of revenue from tags that are doomed the day they are purchased to never be notched because in MT its pretty cheap to do the "shotgun approach" and fill your pocket with everything elk to doe antelope.

You start selling doe tags at $50 a whack and you'll see a lot less tags sold...I promise.

The only way to do it would be to keep the "extra" tags at their current price or nearly so and increase just buck/bull tags. I also think a BMA stamp would be great...

 

[shoots-straight]

I really could care less about the outcome from doing away with OSL. I know what it was like before this fiasco took place, so I know how things will go again. It's wrong to subsidise a minority Industry that feeds off the public resource. It will not have the big bad scary effects some of you outfitters say it will. It WILL make the lousy outfitters start working harder to keep clients.

A deer tag alone in Indiana costs $400 bucks. I think at $900 for a combo of tags NR sportsman will still come hunt here. They will still book outfitters. The growth the industry has enjoyed will stop! Sorry, but our game herds have reached max consumption. They need time to heal in many areas, especially after this year.

 

[buck23]

As a NR, I have hunted MT. since the late 90'S and would hate to see that tag go to 900 bucks.It makes it tougher to get a couple buddies to apply and get drawn, who now hem and haw over 600 bucks.And as a father it would be quite expensive to bring my children.I can see both sides however,and know that the cost of tags continue to rise all over the west.I am strictly a diy hunter,and never use outfitters,yet still have a great time hunting in MT.I would guess that my time in your great state would be reduced,but the draw odds may be better.It will be interesting anyway to see how it turns out.

 

[Drake4]

This is beating a dead horse but, more private land will get leased
not by outfitters, but by out-a-staters with big money.

This won't be pretty, there will be some major wars if this passes.

Not with outfitters but with landowners and hunters

I doubt it.

I could see some landowners turning to BMA..especially the smaller chunks, who weren't making much off the outfitters and don't have much private leasing interest.

I can also see some going in the opposite direction..but I don't think there will be anything close to the all out armageddon that you are predicting.

I'm more concerned with the $$, than the loss/gain of public land.

 

[wgiles]

I'm not in Montana, but I am very concerned about outfitters taking over and closing land to hunting by ordinary citizens. I am not happy that everything appears to be for sale, even access that should be our right. I'm not necessarily against outfitters, but there should be some competition and alternatives. Otherwise, they are like funeral directors and real estate agents, just money grubbers.

 

[TOM IN TENNESSEE]

I was not whining...just posting to get repsonses which I have enjoyed reading....started hunting and fishing MT in late 70's with a bud who lived in Three Forks at the time....good old five trout a day limit with bigguns allowed..we would hike up the Bear Trap almost to the dam and take a couple of days to fish out...nothing in our packs but onions, salt, pepper, beer and bed rolls...then the Feds deregulated RR and Three Forks was fugged so he and Dad sold the mercantile store and he moved back to Baker to help his Dad run last store, we then whacked antelope and deer and turkey on their friends property....and partied at the four bars in Baker that had strippers...then came the oil bust...my buddy went back to school at 45 and reeducated himself and ended up in Wolf Point from which we hunted Pheasants, Sharp Tail, ducks, and Turkey.....only a couple of the properties we hunted are not now leased by Outfitters.....ain't visited my good friend for hunting in several years now....but a outfitter set aside did get me my Bob/Scapegoat Elk and muley....
Just don't kill what's left of the goose, guys! Outfiiter leases done killed it for me!

 

[174in]

It's good to see some Resident guys who actually admit the rest of the state's hunters are too damn cheap and are hurting themselves. The nonres tag prices are getting out of reach for many the way it is and the economy isn't helping. I would hate to see younger hunters get shut out from prices alone. If the prices go up more, think of what it will cost along for a father and son to come out there and hunt. Hell, they will all have to be driving Budget rental trucks
Lots of guys on this forum agree the resident prices are embarrassing, thanks for the honest and thoughtful logic, we need more of it in all states.
I like What Randy once said, some states that apply such unfair rules should have the reciprocal tag fees and rules applied to them as nonresidents. A guy from WY want to come to MT, sure, but a price hike and he has to hire a guide to hunt wilderness. Want to hunt sheep in MT and you are from AK? You have to hire a guide as well. Want to come to WI from MT to hunt deer (like you would ever want to) you pay 20X more than a resident for a tag. It would be interesting to see what reactions rules like that would get.

Your info is wrong a nonres can hunt deer in wisconsin for $160.00, a resident tag cost me $24.00 you are right though wy someone from MT would want to com hunt here.The DNR has our heard all screwed up.

 

[schmalts]

Your info is wrong a nonres can hunt deer in wisconsin for $160.00, a resident tag cost me $24.00 you are right though wy someone from MT would want to com hunt here.The DNR has our heard all screwed up.

Uhh, i dont think you got my point. Yea I know they can hunt WI for 160$ , my point is someone from MT should have to pay what they charge a nonresident in thier state to come and hunt WI. This is of course is just an example.

 

[belly-deep]

....and partied at the four bars in Baker that had strippers

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one...dudes in drag don't count as strippers...

 

[thecrittergitter]

Overall, i agree that the lousy outfitters will just have to work harder to keep clients. Nothing wrong with that. What blows me away is that there are so many MT residents that would whine and cry about a license hike. Geezuz, is there any other state you can go kill as much shit for as little money as MT? I don't think so!

The outfitters are gonna whine and cry all day long but with the increase in draw odds it will provide for NR, chances are if your an outfitter thats worth a chit, people will still book hunts and will likely be close to a 100% draw for all NR.............

Blue Yummies, i dug through my couch, i found about $2.60............looks like I will survive another day

 

[Blue Yummies]

If we don't care about price hikes and get rid of all the outfitters. The main
question will be what??

Will landowners open there ground free to the public?

You have to think that hunting is good (in certain areas) because landowners
regulate it. How many outfitters keep breeder bucks or bulls in herds, to keep there
future stock. That spreads to the public and blm ground for all hunters.

I just think that landowners who have leased to outfitters will still lease
to an outfitter or the highest out a state bidder or will charge by the head to come and
hunt.

 

[shoots-straight]

If we don't care about price hikes and get rid of all the outfitters. The main
question will be what??

Will landowners open there ground free to the public?

You have to think that hunting is good (in certain areas) because landowners
regulate it. How many outfitters keep breeder bucks or bulls in herds, to keep there
future stock. That spreads to the public and blm ground for all hunters.

I just think that landowners who have leased to outfitters will still lease
to an outfitter or the highest out a state bidder or will charge by the head to come and
hunt.

Maybe so, but their unfair handout will be over. The outfitters that kept on leasing more and more land, because of the growth caused by OSL will come to an end. It won't perpetuate anymore leasing. That will be a win in itself.

 

[thecrittergitter]

Doesn't say anythign about getting rid of the outfitters, just guaranteed tags for them.

Your comment...."I just think that landowners who have leased to outfitters will still lease
to an outfitter..."

Then what are you worried about?

Guaranteeing licenses for outfitters so they will be certain to have business in the upcoming year.................let me see, NOBODY guarantees that my clients will be with me in the upcoming year, why should your business be any more "special" than mine??

 

[174in]

Uhh, i dont think you got my point. Yea I know they can hunt WI for 160$ , my point is someone from MT should have to pay what they charge a nonresident in thier state to come and hunt WI. This is of course is just an example.

Ok gotta now and agree with you 100%

 

[belly-deep]

You have to think that hunting is good (in certain areas) because landowners
regulate it. How many outfitters keep breeder bucks or bulls in herds, to keep there
future stock. That spreads to the public and blm ground for all hunters.

Yeah, the great stewards of the land that they are.

Shoot all the bulls, leave all the cows, FWP has to come in and slaughter them in February...they are just great at what they do.

And other than in a high fence, I've never heard of an outfitter keeping a breeder buck or bull.

 

[Blue Yummies]

Yeah, the great stewards of the land that they are.

Shoot all the bulls, leave all the cows, FWP has to come in and slaughter them in February...they are just great at what they do.

And other than in a high fence, I've never heard of an outfitter keeping a breeder buck or bull.

Didnt answer my ??

Will it open private land? Go have some coffee and come back on when you are not so Hostile.

 

[noharleyyet]

Originally Posted by schmalts
Uhh, i dont think you got my point. Yea I know they can hunt WI for 160$ , my point is someone from MT should have to pay what they charge a nonresident in thier state to come and hunt WI. This is of course is just an example.

Pat, how does skewing supply demand valuation promote equitibility.

 

[shoots-straight]

Will it open private land? Go have some coffee and come back on when you are not so Hostile.

Take two aspirin and load up on the B vitamins. Then see if you can understand this! WE DON'T GIVE A RATS ARSE IF IT OPENS MORE LANDS. It certainly won't add to more leases. This is an unfair subsidy to a really minority segment of people in Montana. Does Idaho have the lease problem Montana does? They don't have OSL available. How do they get by over there?

 

[Blue Yummies]

This is an unfair subsidy to a really minority segment of people in Montana.

A minority who brings money to the state.

This topic is like pissing in the wind with you and nemont. You guys have made up your mind and I could care less.

It's just that every argument you guys have made does not help hunters at all.


I am over this topic. See what happens in November.