Montana Muzzleloader season bill

[winmag]

Got around to listening to the 2/2/2021 hearing today.

Proponents:
Caleb Hinkle – House District 68
Garrett Vacon – Citizen from east Helena (same guy was a proponent of HB202 to make sheep/goat/elk OIL; I may have the first name wrong)
Matt Leow – Montana Chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers
Neil Duram – House District 2

Opponents:
Marcus Strange – Montana Wildlife Federation
Dale Tribby – Montana Sportsman Alliance
Carmen Borshelt – Montana Audubon

And some quotes:

Representative Hinkle seems to think that "[traditional muzzleloaders] are limited to shots of 70 yards max". He later goes on to say a percussion Hawkin is 50 yards max range. But he has a Flintlock Kentucky that has a much longer range...all the way out to 70 yards.

Garrett Vacon - Notes that people are shooting 1000 yards with the new 6.5 [Creedmoors], [so hunting with a traditional muzzleloader during a season when people can shoot those is not fair]

Matt Leow, BHA - “I’m here representing the voices of over 3,000 dues paying members across [Montana]”

Marcus Strange - "Currently more dates where you can use muzzleloaders than when you can't"

Carmen Borshelt - [rejects wildlife management via legislation]

 

[JLS]

(8) There is established a special muzzleloader heritage hunting season that begins on the second Saturday after the end of the regular season and lasts 9 days. During this season and subject to the provisions of 87-6-401(1)(i), a person may take a deer or elk with a valid license or permit using plain lead projectiles and a muzzleloading rifle that is charged with black powder, pyrodex, or an equivalent, and ignited by a flintlock, wheel lock, matchlock, or percussion mechanism. The muzzleloading rifle must be a minimum of .45 caliber and may not have more than two barrels."

Whew, glad it can't be a double barreled rifle.

I agree with @Randy Hodges. I'd be lighting up your BHA chapter right now. This is asinine.

 

[Nameless Range]

That money along with a big chunk of my Christmas bonus will go to MWF.

MWF sure seems to consistently be on the right side of so many Montana wildlife issues. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[winmag]

When questioned about 9 more days of harassment, at the end of an already long 5 week general season, Hinkle said [paraphrasing] oh its really hard to kill one with a traditional muzzleloader, so that's not an issue.

Harassment isn't killing an animal, its pushing the herd of 100 a couple miles when they should be laying there not expending energy as they go into winter.

 

[Matt B]

I am torn on this issue. I hunt with a traditional style Hawkins .54 caliber muzzleloader. Effective range for me with open sights is about 100 to 125 yards at max. I love hunting muzzleloader only seasons because I am usually by myself.
The problem is will the hunt stay traditional. I have seen states start with good intentions and with a true traditional muzzleloader season you won't see hardly any impact on herd. The minute you allow modern equipment every one and will be trying it and quality hunting will go down. Just look at Wisconsin when they allowed Crossbows to be used during archery seaspn.

 

[Schaaf]

I'd be lighting up your BHA chapter right now. This is asinine.

I had a 15 minute phone call with the Chapter president last night. They’re definitely feeling the heat and are damn wrong to support this bill.
First and foremost we don’t mandate seasons through the legislature.

 

[tjones]

Am I missing something but I see nothing on this bill on the MT BHA FB or the National BHA FB.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

MT BHA FB

I saw a post briefly but I believe it was deleted. (And I honestly thought I was going nuts for a minute because it got deleted so fast, but I definitely saw people commenting about it).

 

[winmag]

Am I missing something but I see nothing on this bill on the MT BHA FB or the National BHA FB

I dunno about their website but they spoke at the hearing of the bill as a proponent, "representing the voices of over 3,000 dues paying members across Montana"

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I am torn on this issue. I hunt with a traditional style Hawkins .54 caliber muzzleloader. Effective range for me with open sights is about 100 to 125 yards at max. I love hunting muzzleloader only seasons because I am usually by myself.
The problem is will the hunt stay traditional. I have seen states start with good intentions and with a true traditional muzzleloader season you won't see hardly any impact on herd. The minute you allow modern equipment every one and will be trying it and quality hunting will go down. Just look at Wisconsin when they allowed Crossbows to be used during archery seaspn.

I've hunted Colorado with a muzzy multiple times, and I spent spent a month hunting MA with a muzzy this year; I also like hunting with a muzzy.

Montana has a 5 week season when you can use a muzzy. Should vote to force MFWP to add a 2 week crossbow season, and then a 10 day atlatl season?

These proposals drive me nuts. If you want to hunt an elk or deer in Montana with your favorite implement you already can.

 

[tjones]

I can find nothing on any BHA social media, it appears they are purposely hiding their support?

 

[Schaaf]

Am I missing something but I see nothing on this bill on the MT BHA FB or the National BHA FB.

I posted "Can someone from the board explain the reasoning for supporting a legislatively mandated shoulder season for the sake of opportunity while vocally opposing shoulder seasons?"

It required admin approval and apparently was not approved.

 

[tjones]

I posted "Can someone from the board explain the reasoning for supporting a legislatively mandated shoulder season for the sake of opportunity while vocally opposing shoulder seasons?"

It required admin approval and apparently was not approved.

Great question and lack of response even more troubling.

 

[mtmiller]

Am I missing something but I see nothing on this bill on the MT BHA FB or the National BHA FB.

I couldn't find it either. Thanks RH for putting this in the spotlight.

 

[Sytes]

I know there's opposition towards extending an already long set of our hunt season.
I've always shared, reduce our time frames, increase our resident fees, blah, blah...

I'd like to see a traditional muzzleloader season... 9 days, whatever... Within our current set of time would be best. Is there opposition to a traditional muzzleloader time frame? If we cut our general rifle season one week and made that a muzzy time?

Or is this strictly opposition towards extending what we believe as already long seasons for hunting?

 

[MThuntr]

Yikes as much as I'd love to have a traditional muzzleloader season we're already ample opportunity to shoot deer with a muzzleloader during general season...I generally fill at least 1 B tag annually with a traditional muzzleloader.

Some animals are being chased from Aug to Feb already maybe we need to push for a rest week where everyone puts their guns down and takes a break.

 

[tjones]

Within our current set of time would be best. Is there opposition to a traditional muzzleloader time frame?

5 weeks of muzzleloader season isn't enough?

 

[Sytes]

5 weeks of muzzleloader season isn't enough?

With that thought process, no reason to have an archery season. There are reasonable limitations for traditional muzzleloaders as with archery.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

5 weeks of muzzleloader season isn't enough?

Not to mention the 5 month muzzy B tags...

 

[tjones]

With that thought process, no reason to have an archery season. There are reasonable limitations for traditional muzzleloaders as with archery.

The archery season isn't adding new seasons at a time of year elk and deer are more vulnerable.