Montana Legislature - 1 month until the Show
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
- Start date
Eric Albus
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- May 24, 2012
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Let me know who and where they need to hear about this. I hate to hear/see this sort of thing happening.
Eric Albus
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,579
This is supposed to be the next item on agenda. We will see what happens.
What dates would you rather see? It would be fine with me if they made the last week of general season primitive only.
That would work. I was thinking more in lines of a three-day season, like February 29-31st.
Hmm. To your questions, I have to give that some thought. I was not in favor of the original proposal and when I think about it, I'm still not in favor. The sponsor promoted the season as a way for folks who hadn't already filled a tag to be able to do so. Note that he didn't call it a muzzleloader season, he called it a "Heritage Season." Maybe he is referring to a "heritage" connotation of getting to shoot stuff until the last buck or bull is gone from that herd.
I scratch my head in thinking about that motivation for this season, per the comments of the sponsor - with six weeks of archery, five weeks of rifle, and much of the state either-sex, do we still need another ten days for those who couldn't get it done in the other eleven weeks? I didn't think so then and I don't think so now.
If the sponsor had pitched it as giving an opportunity for those who want to hunt with a primitive weapon, he knows it would not have passed, as we already let muzzleloaders hunt for the five weeks of rifle season. Do they need a special season? Maybe. If so, I would give up the last week of rifle and cut the last week off archery, sliding rifle season even earlier. But, if I agreed to that, I would demand some changes, as explained in the next paragraph.
Adding this season just moved us even closer to "choose your weapon" in Montana. As it was, you could use your bow, rifle, shotgun, or muzzy during the five weeks of rifle season. If you wanted to go primitive during the deer rut, you could/can, without the need to extend season to the most vulnerable period in tough winters. If folks really want that primitive season on top of all we currently have, I would say if you want to hunt the late muzzy season, it is a special validation permit and by selecting that option, you disclaim any opportunity to hunt the archery or rifle seasons. That would give the muzzy season to the folks who are committed and serious about using that weapon, rather than the portly mid-twenties dude who borrowed his uncle's inline and drove his snowmobile to places he is likely not able to hike to (yeah, I know, a heavy stereotype based on who I have heard bragging about these hunts).
Maybe it comes down to each of us and our decision of when enough is enough. Given I just purposefully ate my fourth consecutive deer tag and third consecutive elk tag, even though I could have filled them, at least for me, enough is enough. I know others might feel differently. And I am willing to give up something to share with others, but not without consideration of the elk and deer who have been hammered by long seasons, year-round backcountry disturbance, and now, a terrible winter that seems to be their next challenge.
Sorry that I've not given a good answer of dates I'd rather see. I just didn't see a need for this season. And standing at the counter of sporting goods stores listening to guys talk about their new muzzleloaders, smoking elk in December, and upgrading their snowmobiles only served to confirm my concerns about this season when it was originally proposed.
For now, I will stick with muzzleloader season dates of February 29-31st.
I believe the muzzy season is a great compliment to Montana heritage of hunting. I'm disappointed in organizations who pushed for this in directions beyond value - for sake of their own archery desires.
Muzzy traditional - *should be in archery season. Not an added late season.
It’s pretty easy to find Colorado hunters that hate the muzzleloader and archery overlap plus what has it been two or three years since a muzzleloader hunter killed and archer?
cgasner1
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I like the season not the dates personally. The entire system needs an over haul. If they ever did do it and go to a pick your weapon it’s just one more season to help spread the pressure of our growing population across. A lot of the points you have made on it I haven’t really considered since I stopped hunting that side of the state 10 years ago. Also since this has been put into effect I haven’t packed a rifle in this state. I personally don’t care to hunt bucks in the rut with a gun so I don’t. I’d rather try and do it with my muzzyThat would work. I was thinking more in lines of a three-day season, like February 29-31st.
Hmm. To your questions, I have to give that some thought. I was not in favor of the original proposal and when I think about it, I'm still not in favor. The sponsor promoted the season as a way for folks who hadn't already filled a tag to be able to do so. Note that he didn't call it a muzzleloader season, he called it a "Heritage Season." Maybe he is referring to a "heritage" connotation of getting to shoot stuff until the last buck or bull is gone from that herd.
I scratch my head in thinking about that motivation for this season, per the comments of the sponsor - with six weeks of archery, five weeks of rifle, and much of the state either-sex, do we still need another ten days for those who couldn't get it done in the other eleven weeks? I didn't think so then and I don't think so now.
If the sponsor had pitched it as giving an opportunity for those who want to hunt with a primitive weapon, he knows it would not have passed, as we already let muzzleloaders hunt for the five weeks of rifle season. Do they need a special season? Maybe. If so, I would give up the last week of rifle and cut the last week off archery, sliding rifle season even earlier. But, if I agreed to that, I would demand some changes, as explained in the next paragraph.
Adding this season just moved us even closer to "choose your weapon" in Montana. As it was, you could use your bow, rifle, shotgun, or muzzy during the five weeks of rifle season. If you wanted to go primitive during the deer rut, you could/can, without the need to extend season to the most vulnerable period in tough winters. If folks really want that primitive season on top of all we currently have, I would say if you want to hunt the late muzzy season, it is a special validation permit and by selecting that option, you disclaim any opportunity to hunt the archery or rifle seasons. That would give the muzzy season to the folks who are committed and serious about using that weapon, rather than the portly mid-twenties dude who borrowed his uncle's inline and drove his snowmobile to places he is likely not able to hike to (yeah, I know, a heavy stereotype based on who I have heard bragging about these hunts).
Maybe it comes down to each of us and our decision of when enough is enough. Given I just purposefully ate my fourth consecutive deer tag and third consecutive elk tag, even though I could have filled them, at least for me, enough is enough. I know others might feel differently. And I am willing to give up something to share with others, but not without consideration of the elk and deer who have been hammered by long seasons, year-round backcountry disturbance, and now, a terrible winter that seems to be their next challenge.
Sorry that I've not given a good answer of dates I'd rather see. I just didn't see a need for this season. And standing at the counter of sporting goods stores listening to guys talk about their new muzzleloaders, smoking elk in December, and upgrading their snowmobiles only served to confirm my concerns about this season when it was originally proposed.
For now, I will stick with muzzleloader season dates of February 29-31st.
BirdManMike
Well-known member
There is literally nothing stopping anyone from hunting with a traditional muzzleloader during the general season. Nothing save people's competitiveness, FOMO, or whatever other personal issues they may have. I have killed animals 4 out of the last 6 seasons (most on private, but some on public - and I certainly could have taken any number of dink mule deer during the rut while hunting elk) with a traditional muzzeloader during the general weapons season, including a 5pt bull elk. If I can do it, anyone not too old, too fat, or too crippled can do it, too.
IMO, it should be an eliminated archery week from the first or last. Not at the prime rut, nor overlap. Remove a week.
It fits the intent of Montana's dying desire to keep hunt traditional measures alive, thus a quality use to create a specific week dedicated to the "Traditional" means of fair chase.
Compound has turned to a crossbow, practically when considering the enhancements from recurve. I recall the arguments from that era.
If you want to see what "The Show" will look like, here's a bill draft request for this session that should get your attention.
Do we need to revise the definition of who is a resident or non-resident, just for the purposes of hunting and fishing licenses?
Will it make reference to how many acres you own as a way to get residency for elk licenses and not have the inconvenient headache of standing in line with the other non-residents who don't happen to own huge ranches?
Will it change the definition to allow some people currently classified as non-residents to be exempt from the 10% NR cap in limited units?
Is this the start of "Bulls For Billionaires, Act II?"
I don't know the intent of this bill, but I see no need to revise the definitions of residency for purposes of hunting and fishing licenses. Without a drafted bill to read, I'm betting this bill is not good for the resource or the average hunter. Until then, I'm suspicious.
Link here - http://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW02...ILL_DFT_NO5=LC0209&Z_ACTION=Find&P_SESS=20231
Short Title: | Revise definition of nonresident related to hunting and fishing licenses |
Do we need to revise the definition of who is a resident or non-resident, just for the purposes of hunting and fishing licenses?
Will it make reference to how many acres you own as a way to get residency for elk licenses and not have the inconvenient headache of standing in line with the other non-residents who don't happen to own huge ranches?
Will it change the definition to allow some people currently classified as non-residents to be exempt from the 10% NR cap in limited units?
Is this the start of "Bulls For Billionaires, Act II?"
I don't know the intent of this bill, but I see no need to revise the definitions of residency for purposes of hunting and fishing licenses. Without a drafted bill to read, I'm betting this bill is not good for the resource or the average hunter. Until then, I'm suspicious.
Link here - http://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW02...ILL_DFT_NO5=LC0209&Z_ACTION=Find&P_SESS=20231
Luke_with_a_lab
Well-known member
Its wild to see bills like this come forward. As Randy said you can bet its not for the good of the resource or hunter. As a politician by putting these bills out there you expose just who's side your on and who your fighting for in Helena. The crazy part is after doing so the voting public doesn't seem to care and votes em right back in simply because they have that R by their name.
The lack of pushback to the muzzleloader bill was pretty discouraging. Maybe the lack of attention that bill received could be attributed to people focusing on the numerous other bad hunting bills that had been introduced. I wonder if sportsmens groups should be working with legislators to make amendments to some of these bills. For instance, I would have been 100% in favor of the muzzleloader season if it had replaced the last week of the general season. Not that I think we need a separate season for muzzleloaders, but I think eliminating any of the mule deer rut hunting would be a win. As has been mentioned here before, what better way to celebrate Thanksgiving than to hunt like the pilgrims did?That would work. I was thinking more in lines of a three-day season, like February 29-31st.
Hmm. To your questions, I have to give that some thought. I was not in favor of the original proposal and when I think about it, I'm still not in favor. The sponsor promoted the season as a way for folks who hadn't already filled a tag to be able to do so. Note that he didn't call it a muzzleloader season, he called it a "Heritage Season." Maybe he is referring to a "heritage" connotation of getting to shoot stuff until the last buck or bull is gone from that herd.
I scratch my head in thinking about that motivation for this season, per the comments of the sponsor - with six weeks of archery, five weeks of rifle, and much of the state either-sex, do we still need another ten days for those who couldn't get it done in the other eleven weeks? I didn't think so then and I don't think so now.
If the sponsor had pitched it as giving an opportunity for those who want to hunt with a primitive weapon, he knows it would not have passed, as we already let muzzleloaders hunt for the five weeks of rifle season. Do they need a special season? Maybe. If so, I would give up the last week of rifle and cut the last week off archery, sliding rifle season even earlier. But, if I agreed to that, I would demand some changes, as explained in the next paragraph.
Adding this season just moved us even closer to "choose your weapon" in Montana. As it was, you could use your bow, rifle, shotgun, or muzzy during the five weeks of rifle season. If you wanted to go primitive during the deer rut, you could/can, without the need to extend season to the most vulnerable period in tough winters. If folks really want that primitive season on top of all we currently have, I would say if you want to hunt the late muzzy season, it is a special validation permit and by selecting that option, you disclaim any opportunity to hunt the archery or rifle seasons. That would give the muzzy season to the folks who are committed and serious about using that weapon, rather than the portly mid-twenties dude who borrowed his uncle's inline and drove his snowmobile to places he is likely not able to hike to (yeah, I know, a heavy stereotype based on who I have heard bragging about these hunts).
Maybe it comes down to each of us and our decision of when enough is enough. Given I just purposefully ate my fourth consecutive deer tag and third consecutive elk tag, even though I could have filled them, at least for me, enough is enough. I know others might feel differently. And I am willing to give up something to share with others, but not without consideration of the elk and deer who have been hammered by long seasons, year-round backcountry disturbance, and now, a terrible winter that seems to be their next challenge.
Sorry that I've not given a good answer of dates I'd rather see. I just didn't see a need for this season. And standing at the counter of sporting goods stores listening to guys talk about their new muzzleloaders, smoking elk in December, and upgrading their snowmobiles only served to confirm my concerns about this season when it was originally proposed.
For now, I will stick with muzzleloader season dates of February 29-31st.
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The constitutional referendums are lining up as well as bills that would reduce citizen involvement in government decisions.
Here's a good example: http://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW02...ILL_DFT_NO5=LC2385&Z_ACTION=Find&P_SESS=20231
Here's a good example: http://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW02...ILL_DFT_NO5=LC2385&Z_ACTION=Find&P_SESS=20231
Yeah, Eff those Montanans who want a "clean and healthful environment" as is guaranteed to them under the State Constitution.
They need more truthfulness in bill titles. This one should be called "Revise the Montana Constitution to guarantee dirtier air and water." See how much traction that bill would get.
With the draft bills coming forward, I can see the Hunt Talk Radio podcast would be headed down the "Unfiltered" tracks this winter.
There's bills for increasing categorical exclusions under MEPA, Bills that could eliminate or severely reduce public input on rulemaking, and a smattering of drafts that could possibly weaken public participation in government even more than the current iteration of MEPA/MAPA.
It's not just the critter bills in the crosshairs, it's the ability of people to engage in their own government.
While these are all just drafts, the watchful need to be sure to keep an eye out for bills well outside of the usual fish & wildlife section. We are expecting a bill to remove the funding for Habitat Montana that was passed last session, as well as some other attempts to either kill Habitat MT or at least severely weaken it.
As of right now, there are 59 bills that are introduced, and 3372 that are still drafts.
3372 Bill drafts. That's a lot of legislatin'.
There are several bills to muck around with the court, including a provision that the Governor appoints vacancies to the Supreme Court rather than hold a special election, undue the non-partisan nature and a few other drafts w/no language behind them yet. The Leg is aiming for the court this session, heavily.
