Montana General Season Structure Proposal
- Thread starter Gerald Martin
- Start date
Yes
Irishman
Well-known member
Still it makes no sense for elk hunting, usually the first week of September it too hot to be killing an animal as big as an elk, never mind the last week of August.
Eric Albus
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You’re getting rich, by comparison. I had to float my boat from home to Billings, burned $160 in diesel, $150 motel expense. Lunch was my big win, $0 out of pocket, and yes Art’s neighbors beef was excellent!!No, Ben Lamb’s shadow organization is accused of paying for this.
Full transparency on my financial windfall for this process.
Splitting a motel room three ways with Randy & Justin. $50 out of pocket.
Dinner at Dave’s Hot Chicken in Billings. 15.00 Highly recommend- 4/4 stars would eat there again. Get the chicken slider platter/ one hot/ one mild.
A tank of gas for Randy’s truck since I carpooled to Billings with him. $60 out of pocket.
Cost of groceries for lunch fixings and pasta salad. $25 out of pocket plus the Tupperware bowl that Randy still has because we couldn’t get his frozen lock on the topper to open.
I did get to eat Art’s beef since he supplied the hamburger for lunch burgers at our meeting. That’s probably worth about $50 since they were really good burgers.
Ben bought me dinner in Bozeman at Sidewinders on the tail end of one of his trips. That was @$21 for a great chicken fried steak.
Time in the presence of the illustrious personalities credited with participating in crafting this proposal- Priceless
Whatever that’s tallied up to be is how much I’ve made so far…
Eric Albus
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FYI, nothing was handed down to us from on high written upon stone tablets. This group, and hopefully the mule deer group, will be flexible enough to morph ideas. If there’s a ton of heartburn with adding the August week to archery it can be scrubbed, start Sept 1, end bow season after 1st week October on Saturday. Start mule deer rifle Sunday. Run thru Nov 4-5-6? Start elk/whitetail either traditional dates or end mule deer first Saturday Nov, start elk/wt Sunday.
The Hedgehog
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Speak for yourself. I’ve taken 8 elk first week of season and would love for it to open earlier. The Utah hunt I did last year opened in mid August and that first few days was crazy good.
Everybody will whine about some level of change where they are not getting everything they want and feel entitled to. Sad deal people refuse to look at the bigger picture.
Irishman
Well-known member
So it's easier to kill elk in August? I'm not arguing that, but weren't these proposals to help protect the resource, not kill off more of the resource?
Flatbrimmer
Well-known member
Kill more elk quickly in less days= more unpressured mule deer ultimately sharing less habitat…
Eric Albus
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If we want to preserve any kind of decent opportunity something must be done. This is What most of the haters(I don’t facebook) fail to understand.
If we make no attempt and leave status quo, we will wind up at LE permits in 6&7 within 2 yrs.
If we make no attempt and leave status quo, we will wind up at LE permits in 6&7 within 2 yrs.
Montanans already start killing elk on August 15th. That's when shoulder seasons start and some damage hunts.
Flynarrow
Well-known member
Not to highjack a good discussion, but to add that mule deer need quality habitat. As a prime example, fire suppression on summer range has had long term detrimental effects on mule deer production in forested habitats "For example, in 2003, the Bulldog fire in southeastern Utah burned more than 30,000 acres of crucial summer and transitional ranges. After the fire, mule deer fawn recruitment went from a 5-year average of 44 fawns per 100 does to an average of 80 fawns per 100 does."(source: western Mule Deer Working Group).
Habitat conversions from shrubs to grasses via grass flavored grazing systems and herbicides has further reduced forage favorable to mule deer. In addition, invasive species have displaced native forage species. Cheat grass is among the worst at present, and commonly prevents sagebrush reestablishment following fire.
And of course, continued human sprawl up through winter ranges and even transitional ranges displaces mule deer all over Montana. And we add more human disturbance to mule deer habitat that displaces and stresses mule deer, including ATVs, snowmobiles, more trails, antler hunting, etc.
So no matter what mule deer seasons we end up with, there is no going back to the good old days IMO.
Habitat conversions from shrubs to grasses via grass flavored grazing systems and herbicides has further reduced forage favorable to mule deer. In addition, invasive species have displaced native forage species. Cheat grass is among the worst at present, and commonly prevents sagebrush reestablishment following fire.
And of course, continued human sprawl up through winter ranges and even transitional ranges displaces mule deer all over Montana. And we add more human disturbance to mule deer habitat that displaces and stresses mule deer, including ATVs, snowmobiles, more trails, antler hunting, etc.
So no matter what mule deer seasons we end up with, there is no going back to the good old days IMO.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Then eventually it will be LE permits, pick your weapon, pick your district, pick your week, pay the wealthy out-of-state landowner for access to public wildlife, and mule deer Back to the Brink of extinction. Sadly our great grandchildren will have no concept of the great hunting opportunity we have been blessed to experience in Montana.
Sioux33
Well-known member
Was there any discussion on how landowners and Block participants would view a 92 day straight hunting season?
With the number of hunter complaints these days, I think the increase in the number of rifle days, which will drastically increases hunter participation and landowner complaints, needs to be taken into account.
With the number of hunter complaints these days, I think the increase in the number of rifle days, which will drastically increases hunter participation and landowner complaints, needs to be taken into account.
There's a concerted effort by FWP and groups like the Mule Deer Foundation to start working on the habitat side. 100% in agreement that Habitat needs to be front and center on these discussions, but the group, after discussing habitat, predations and seasons set on a path to work on season structure, and be value added on the other two issues.
The way that they have structured this season is to help spread out pressure during the hunting season and use hunters to drive pressure on private land during general seasons (antlerless elk harvest in Oct). As summer recreation grows, then you start to see the deleterious effects of human caused disturbance on summer ranges and what the means for animal distribution as well as overall health, infill on winter range for new housing development, noxious weeds, predation, etc all have impacts that must be addressed, but this proposal is not an all-encompassing management plan, but rather an attempt to improve the hunting season structure to help mule deer and improve hunter success elsewhere, rather than add more shoulder seasons, party-hunting, etc.
How Montanans hunt deer affects the way they hunt elk, and vice-versa. The issue of mule deer conservation is a major driver, yes, but the proposal also has significant benefits for improving elk hunting on public land, reducing pressure on private land, and increasing hunter success. Opportunity to take a weapon for a walk is awesome, but it's not that opportunity that people want - it's the opportunity to harvest that must be increased.
Weather in Bozeman in September 2021 (Montana) - detailed Weather Forecast for a month
Detailed Bozeman Weather Forecast for September 2021 – day/night temperatures, precipitations – World-Weather.info
You can check the historic record on temps in a few cities on that website. I'm seeing not much difference in temps between August 25th & standard archery opener.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Do you not recognize the Aug 15th through Feb 15th elk shoulder season length currently, with interspersed archery, youth, muzzle loader, weapons restricted area, moose, goat, sheep, bear, turkey hunting also?
"92 day" hunting is not a change.
I think we've all seen 90+ in mid to late September so I don't really think that's an issue.
I would more miss being able to hunt that first week of October.
Sioux33
Well-known member
Most BMA's that I know of refuse to allow shoulder seasons. This takes rifle season from 10/1-11/25, so hunter participation, knocking on doors, evening phone calls, etc. would increase drastically.
92 day hunting isn't a change, but the participation level would be a huge change.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Your opinion only, of which I disagree. Of the obviously many varied points of opposition to the highly likely improvements for hunting and for wildlife from implementation of some thoughtfully vetted proposals, "drastically" increase of annoyance to landowners by requests for access seems dubious, even trivial ... IMHO.
