Leupold LTO tracker

[justdada]

The fellow in the background looked familiar, so I thought I would ask what you all think about using this type of technology for hunting? I can definitely see the advantage for game recovery! How about it Fin, assuming you've put your eye to one, what was your impression?

 

[Randy11]

Hunters are their own worst enemies.

 

[TheTone]

Hunters are their own worst enemies.

Agreed, ugh!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Seriously?

We are our own worst enemy.

I wonder if a new regulation should be implemented to keep this crap out of Wyoming.

 

[Randy11]

I would hope that in Montana it would fall under this-

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Geez, what next?!

 

[bobbydean]

Had to look up what it is!

Would not be in my pack.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Looks like it would be easily abused/used to find game. Kinda like Predator

 

[Cornell2012]

I've got mixed feelings on this.
On one hand, I really like the idea of reducing the number of hit animals that get lost in some way or another.

On the other, this seems way too easy to use for the wrong purpose. Heat-seeking is not on my list of fair chase practices.

I've had a chance to poke around with one. As an engineer I thought it was a nifty idea and technology. As a hunter I was wary of it. All I used it for was to look at how cold my fingers were compared to the rest of my hand (Raynaud's) (and it was kind of cool to see the cold patches my hand left on everything), and to locate my hand warmer that I'd dropped on the floor of the truck.

The sensor resolution is something like 160x220 (around 1/4 the pixel count of a standard-definition TV [edit, see below]), which in my mind limits the product's usefulness to the intended use, recovery. Make it better resolution, and you increase the benefit to somebody trying to use it for live game finding.

I don't see a good way forward for this product. I would be at least a bit happier with the product if the Leupold product page didn't have the image of a (presumably live) standing deer as an example use.

Edit: Product spec sheet has the resolution at 206 by 156 pixels, putting it at 0.032 megapixels of resolution. Compare that to American SD TV resolution of 640 by 480 (0.307 Megapixels). 1/10 the pixel count. Still enough to get a picture, but seems unlikely to me that it would be practically useful out to 600 yards like the product page claims.

Edit 2: See product brochure (here: https://www.leupold.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LTO_WelcomeGuide_AB.pdf) for a better explanation of what they want it to be used for. This frames the product better than the sales page. (Well, kind of.)

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

Interesting...

 

[tjones]

Woodsmen skills will soon be a thing of the past.

 

[mtmuley]

More companies to follow I bet. mtmuley

 

[Big Fin]

A few thoughts. Maybe a lot of thoughts.

In the picture you see Tim Lesser, VP of product development, was showing me and Tyler how it works. Tyler and I had many of the same comments/concerns that have been posted here as it relates to potential abuses when used as a hunting device rather than a recovery device.

A few things I learned.

You can currently buy thermal imaging binoculars from competing optics companies. Leupold did not want to implement this military technology in a long range optics such as binoculars. They put this imaging technology in a short-range device such as this LTO, expecting it to have less likelihood of being used improperly.

I'm not sure of the advertised effective distance of the LTO, but from what I saw it is not a tool that will be used for long-distance imaging. With my shakes and the small display, I doubt my personal effective range would be over 100 yards. That said I am suspect there will be some people who will try to push the limits of this LTO for the same reasons some are using the existing thermal imaging binoculars that are on the market.

The demand for a thermal imaging recovery device has come mainly from two sources in the hunting market, archers and hog hunters. I'm not sure what interest it will have among western rifle hunters where optics are used to locate game at long distances, as if they want long range thermal imaging, if/where legal, they can currently get it in a binocular from companies serving the military/LEO/tactical audience.

It is my understanding that this device is not considered legal for hunting in Montana, the same being said for thermal imaging binoculars and thermal imaging rifle scopes. Even with that regulation in place, on a few occasions I have encountered people at Montana trailheads with thermal imaging equipment who claimed their equipment was legal because they had deactivated the thermal imaging capability by removing the battery.

Leupold did send me one of these devices, as they do with everything they introduce in the hunting category. They stated it probably has limited applicability to my audience. To which I agree. Mine is sitting at home on a shelf.

There is no doubt that this product can have some backlash. If it is marketed as anything other than a recovery device that will have negative connotations. By the product's design, it's application is shorter range recovery. But as shown by the comments here, the first concern most have is the potential for abuse.

As MTMuley said, other companies will be in the market. Actually some companies already are in the thermal imaging bino/rifle scope market and they are promoting their products as actual hunting devices not recovery devices. I am thankful that Leupold recognizes the risks and is focused on a short-range device for game recovery. Whether or not that effort is received by the hunting market in the manner intended is yet to be seen.

I will share this thread with the Leupold marketing team when I meet with them next Friday.

 

[npaden]

You can use it to check for thermal leaks around your house!

 

[tjones]

The 600 yard shooter, the 70 yard archer will be all over this gizmo. The hunter will not.

 

[Randy11]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that Leupold made this specifically for short range recovery, when it says 600 yards and has a picture of a live deer right on the ad.

How long can blood on the ground hold heat? Carcasses barely even hold heat over night.

 

[Randy11]

Applicable- http://www.themeateater.com/2016/hunting-matters-the-technology-paradox/

 

[Nameless Range]

How long can blood on the ground hold heat? Carcasses barely even hold heat over night.

Deer are only .2 degrees Celsius warmer than humans. Spit on the ground and check it one minute later. I'd bet it is less than Five minutes before blood on the ground matches ground temperature when above freezing. Below freezing I can't see it being useful at all.

It's cool technology, and I'm sure it is only a matter of time before a version that fits in the palm of a child's hand can be mounted to a drone that fits in the palm of an adult hand.

I started a thread a while back about technology creep. I believe the changes that are coming will be mind-blowing and will give rise to the ethical issues of our time In both the hunting and non hunting world. Things will get nuts.

As these new technologies come along and are more available, I feel like one of the only answers when it comes to hunting will be increased policing by other hunters and wardens. We need more of them and they will need the proper technologies so that getting caught abusing technology is an actual risk. There's no stopping the stuff that's coming. It would be cool to use on non-game species like coyotes, or for even for wildlife viewing on a backpacking trip, birding, or otherwise.

 

[Sawtooth]

Don't like it one bit because of all the reasons already stated. I wish Leupold would have taken the high road and stayed completely away from this technology. Even if this device was used only for it's intended purpose, which it won't, it will encourage some to take questionable shots. The thinking will be, "we will just use the LTO to find the wounded animal". The only shelf this should be sitting on is the one back at the Leupold factory marked "bad ideas".

 

[bobbydean]

I think I have a legit use for this device.

Do the same objections apply for feral hog hunts, especially at twilight?

I know some hunters use night vision for hunting hogs.

Not made up my mind, but can see it being used in this circumstances.

Just get it out of you pack for a game animal hunt.