How to ruin a Leupold

To be fair, my Leupold 2x7 that failed after 35 years was on a rifle (.243 Winchester Featherweight) I loaned out to several kids for their "first deer" as well as to a somewhat specious friend who said "he just cleaned it" and there was a round in the chamber. IIRC I paid around $160, so got my money's worth + a new scope.

And I almost hate to say this, because it goes against everything I have heard and read, but...

I got another shocker today which shows the difference between low and high quality in each line, and between the internet and reality. A guy who builds long range rifles for a living uses almost exclusively Night...

Vortex. PST and above. Hasn't had one where the warrantee needed to be used in 5-6 years. Constant dialing, obviously.

Took me aback, but I can't really argue much with a guy that guarantees 1/2 MOA at 1/2 mile. How would that work? Well, sure they work at dialing from 100- 1100 yards, but what about at...?

Still likely getting a Trijicon for one, partially because of @brockel's rec, but also because the ACOG gave my SIL a huge advantage on multiple tours, but maybe a PST II for the other.

Fun discussion though.
 
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To be fair, my Leupold 2x7 that failed after 35 years was on a rifle (.243 Winchester Featherweight) I loaned out to several kids for their "first deer" as well as to a somewhat specious friend who said "he just cleaned it" and there was a round in the chamber. IIRC I paid around $160, so got my money's worth + a new scope.

And I almost hate to say this, because it goes against everything I have heard and read, but...

I got another shocker today which shows the difference between low and high quality in each line, and between the internet and reality. A guy who builds long range rifles for a living uses almost exclusively Night...

Vortex. PST and above. Hasn't had one where the warrantee needed to be used in 5-6 years. Constant dialing, obviously.

Took me aback, but I can't really argue much with a guy that guarantees 1/2 MOA at 1/2 mile. How would that work? Well, sure they work at dialing from 100- 1100 yards, but what about at...?

Still likely getting a Trijicon for one, partially because of @brockel's rec, but also because the ACOG gave my SIL a huge advantage on multiple tours, but maybe a PST II for the other.

Fun discussion though.
Half MOA at a half mile? Come on. With what set up? Not saying it’s not possible, but those are heavy gun benchrest competition size groups. Are there any reputable smiths guaranteeing their rifles will shoot 1/2 MOA at 800 yards?
 
Half MOA at a half mile? Come on. With what set up? Not saying it’s not possible, but those are heavy gun benchrest competition size groups. Are there any reputable smiths guaranteeing their rifles will shoot 1/2 MOA at 800 yards?
Yep.
 
I would have zero issues running a Vortex or Leupy or hell any one of those Chinese knockoffs on a benchrest rifle. Sure they dial mostly OK when they go from the safe to a padded case to a bench and back. For hunting, I want something that survives bombing around in a SXS, getting dropped in a pack, falling off a tailgate, etc. It's not like you get the chance to check zero before you pull the trigger on a once in a lifetime bull...
 
Vortex. PST and above. Hasn't had one where the warrantee needed to be used in 5-6 years. Constant dialing, obviously.

Took me aback, but I can't really argue much with a guy that guarantees 1/2 MOA at 1/2 mile. How would that work? Well, sure they work at dialing from 100- 1100 yards, but what about at...?

That's some sales schtick, i'd have a hard time taking that guy's word.

A slick bullet from a magnum (say 215 berger from 300 PRC) is approaching 1/2 MOA deflection from a 1 MPH change in wind at a half mile. Makes me wonder how many rounds is in a group? How many groups does he get to shoot to have one that certifies the guarantee?
 
That's some sales schtick, i'd have a hard time taking that guy's word.

You think?

I bet he makes good guns that shoot well, but I’m certain he and I (and yourself) wouldn’t talk about accuracy potential in the same terms.

@Wind Gypsy, do you know anyone who knows what they’re doing in the shooting space (on the consumer side) who worries about accuracy guarantees?

On the Vortex’s, I’m sure there’s a bunch of Gen 2 & Gen 3 Razors that are behaving themselves under lots of dialing. Gen 1 PST’s? That’s a lot harder to imagine.

A relatively minor failure, but the last Gen 3 Razor I saw had its zero reference ring come loose in the middle of a match. Tape was applied, but not before some targets were missed.

IMG_6313.jpeg
 
@Wind Gypsy, do you know anyone who knows what they’re doing in the shooting space (on the consumer side) who worries about accuracy guarantees?

Nope. It's the ol tommy boy guarantee story.

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RE Gen 1 PSTs, back when cabelas had the "bargain cave" i recall the scopes cabinet having a pile of refurbished gen 1 PSTs and 3 total other scopes in it :ROFLMAO: He did say the last 5-6 years which might line up pretty close with the gen 2 PST release.
 
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Still likely getting a Trijicon for one, partially because of @brockel's rec, but also because the ACOG gave my SIL a huge advantage on multiple tours, but maybe a PST II for the other.

I have a PST II on a .22 because the parallax goes down low enough and It's a cheap gun i barely use. If going on a centerfire i'd definitely look for a used LHRS/LRTS or SWFA 5-20 instead in that price ballpark.
 
That's some sales schtick, i'd have a hard time taking that guy's word.

A slick bullet from a magnum (say 215 berger from 300 PRC) is approaching 1/2 MOA deflection from a 1 MPH change in wind at a half mile. Makes me wonder how many rounds is in a group? How many groups does he get to shoot to have one that certifies the guarantee?

He must be betting heavily on not getting called out on it!
 
Correction: rail was EGW. Put a known good thin-wall scope on in TPS rings. Windage is binding.
 
This seems like a matter of the right tool for the job to me. My hunting rifles wear vx5/6 Leupolds. More than tough enough for any hunting purposes. Unless you legitimately abuse your guns I can't see how a Leupold is not durable enough to go hunting.

My firearm dedicated to eliminating two legged threats has a trijicon 1-4 that doubles as either a real 4x scope or zooms down to 1x to be a tritium battery free red dot (green triangle) sight for close quarters. Very effective fighting tool for anything from 0-400 yards. But that scope would be less than ideal for hunting and there it's extra durability means nothing
 
My biases are well established here, but....

I had a NF SHV on a pic rail( loctite, torqued, witness marked) take a fairly hard fall on some rocks, and then go through a vehicle rollover laying uncased in the back of a 4runner. We checked zero after, still right where it was supposed to be.

That was a good feeling.
 
For those of you that feel Leupold quality has deteriorated can you identify a model or year that was the "last good product"? This isn't a challenge, but more a question of what model is quality in holding zero and repeatability. Sort of a pre-64 winchester... what's the pre-64 leupold model(s).
 
It’d be AMAZING if Leupold took what matters seriously and designed, engineered and manufactured a scope that was reliable.

Waiting.

Millions of others are too.
Leupold and countless others have made “the best scope” and in the guise of marketing and increasing sales, added more doodads and fidgets to an already functional and ideal piece of kit and now they are not longer “the best”.
 
I own a Trijicon Credo, but I also really like the older Leupolds I have. They’re not the equal of a Nightforce when it comes to durability or dialing, but for the way I hunt they work great. I typically don’t pound tent stakes with my scopes. My two go to rifles (.270 and .300 Win Mag) both have 3.5-10 VX3s (not CDS), which have both held zero reliably.

It’s almost always windy everywhere I hunt, and I don’t like to shoot past about 350 in the field. Because I don’t take long shots I’ve also found that I don’t like to dial in the field, and I have come to prefer relatively flat shooting cartridges with simple scopes and reticles for hunting. I just ordered a Zeiss V4 3-12 with capped turrets for my .300 to move the VX3 to a new rifle. I’m excited to try the Zeiss, I think I’ll like it.
 
For those of you that feel Leupold quality has deteriorated can you identify a model or year that was the "last good product"? This isn't a challenge, but more a question of what model is quality in holding zero and repeatability. Sort of a pre-64 winchester... what's the pre-64 leupold model(s).
Not me. I've used the warranty on a Leupold twice. Once now and once about twenty years ago. The why I know a Leupold will wander a little, but still be useful, started with a Vari-X III. I shot that rig a lot, the year round. It did not hold perfectly, but I never missed due to the scope.

You do need shooting ability from frequent practice and tuned equipment to notice; unless you have a major mechanical failure.
 

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