Here's why elk ranches should be illegal in every state

Ithaca 37

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Idaho elk ranchers had the opportunity to regulate and police their own industry (isn't that what every industry says they can do when faced with regulatory legislation) and they failed miserably. Now we don't even know where the red stag cow's offspring are. They could be on an elk ranch in your state and could escape into the wild someday. They could very well be mixed into the Idaho/WY/MT Yellowstone herd by now. There's no way to keep some outlaw elk rancher from secretly breeding some red stag into his elk herd in hopes off growing some palmated antlers. And as we all know, it's impossible to guarantee some won't escape into the wild.

"An elk owned by eastern Idaho elk rancher Rex Rammell has tested positive a second time for red deer genes, prompting the Idaho Department of Agriculture to order it killed, neutered or shipped out of the state.
In September, Gov. Jim Risch ordered the Idaho Department of Fish and Game to kill 160 elk that escaped from Rammell's Chief Joseph Hunting Preserve, sparking a dispute between Rammell, the state and some of his neighbors. It also began a campaign to regulate or ban big-game ranches just as Montana and Wyoming do.

"It's what we feared but hoped wouldn't happen," Risch said Thursday. "This underscores the need for close controls on our domestic elk population."

In 1997, a Colorado laboratory certified the animal as being free of red deer genes. The more recent tests by a Canadian lab found otherwise.

Rammell questioned the validity of the latest test on Thursday.

"I think it's a false positive," he said.

The cow has been in his herd 10 years, Rammell said, and had many offspring. "Why have none of the progeny tested positive?" he said.

State officials said Rammell didn't keep records tying cows to individual calves. So ag officials can't determine whether red deer-influenced offspring remained in Rammell's herd, were killed or shipped to other ranches.
Hunters killed 36 of the elk after Fish and Game opened a special hunt. Elk that had not escaped were quarantined, including the cow elk that has suspect genes.

Rammell's elk have also been tested for brucellosis and tuberculosis. The tests were negative.

The dead elk have been tested for chronic wasting disease, with about 24 results pending. None have tested positive so far.

Rammell said he would comply with the state's order if it reimbursed him $1,000 for the value of the animal.

"As much as I've been bled this fall, you would think the state could find a thousand dollars," Rammell said. "If they're not going to pay me for it, I don't feel it's proper to remove her on a questionable test."

On Monday, Rammell was arrested for missing a court date and released on $5,000 bond. He was scheduled to appear in Fremont County Court on Nov. 22 on a misdemeanor charge that accused him of resisting or obstructing officers. That stemmed from a September incident where he confronted two state sharpshooters who killed two of his escaped elk."

http://www.idahostatesman.com/239/story/63006.html

If you want more info read this:

http://www.montanawildlife.com/Lead.html
 
Last pic on that "offer" was taken at night....must have been late due to tough tracking on that "VERY CHALLENGING hunt" in the 120ac cage....
 
If this thread was titaled;
"Here's why Rex Rammell should do life in prison" I would fully agree.
 
What's the explanation for why the test is different from Canada than the one from Colorado? It, at worst changed from no red stag genes in a previous test to having red stag genes in a later test. What genes are they talking about? Heck, we share about 95% plus of our genes with monkeys. Ithaca's ancestors have got some monkey into their genes, just like mine and yours, so what!

So what! Most of this news is full of it, more info. is needed, so decisions are not based solely on emotions.
 
That last one has got to be top 3 in the "Best of Tom" soon to be classic, collection. Moosie you could do at least 3-4 magazines on Tomism's alone!
 
Mule deer and whitetail cross, we don't think the world is going to end, the purity ruined, and some guy should hang for it. Red stags are called European elk, they should share a lot of genes, right? Big deal, tell me something important about the Canada positive test, why is it different than the Colorado negative test?
 
so Tom you see nothing wrong with a non native specie mixing with a native specie?
 
Tom, mulie/wt crosses, as a result of intentional bio-engineering, would be just as messed up as a pen profiteer enhancing native elk with red stag genetics for the sole purpose of growing non-typ antlers. Surely you see the inherent threat to indigenous herds.
 
Tom, i think it best you delete that post.
it's gonna get ugly!
 
It seems like very little threat, it seems pretty darn natural, more natural than the mulie whitetail crosses I've observed in nature. Isn't evolution supposed to take care of that, survival of the fitest? Washington Hunter, what part do you doubt or need a wildlife biologist to explain? JB, which post you want me to delete?

Maybe they can answer my question, so what? Tell me why its important, explain what's the difference between the negative Colorado test and the positive Canada test, apparently on the same cow?
 
Rammell stated, "Why have none of the progeny tested positive?"...yet the verity of said quote can't be substantiated due to the fact he kept no records of cow/calf genetic ties.

Pen freaks bio'ed to fleece high roller wannabe hunters have nothing to do with hunting.
 
Tom,

Theres all kinds of biological regions to maintain pure strains of any native wildlife. Survival of any type of native game depends on pure genetics.

Dont believe me?

If red deer and native elk hybridize there are consequences. You could lose the pure genetics of the native Rocky Mountain Elk. It matters because the elk in the United States evolved here, they're more suited to the environment here. The timing of the rut, etc. would likely be compromised if red deer are allowed to cross with native elk. In more Northern climates, theres a very narrow window when animals can be born...early enough to ensure survival of their first winter...and late enough to avoid the worse spring weather. Just changing the dynamics and timing of that through genetic variation from non-native species like red deer...could have disastrous results for native elk.

Thats one example of why its important...theres also things like vulnerability (or lack of vulnerability) to diseases that one species or the other may or may not have evoloved with.

There so many classic examples of bad things happening from introduction of non-natives, hybrids, etc. that I'm surprised you'd see no problem with it.

I know you're good at research, it wouldnt take much effort to find plenty of examples.

Keeping genetically pure strains of any native wildlife species is crucial to its long-term survival.
 

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