Ghost Guns

[rwc101]

My apologies to OP. No more healthcare talk for me.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If I am to believe that I am in a social contract to pay for someone else’s healthcare, then I’m going to need some buy-in from the 70% of Americans that are overweight, the whatever percent that use drugs and tobacco and abuse alcohol, that they need to make some changes, before they can get in the system.

You already do pay for other people's healthcare. That's why your insurance keeps going up, and it's why medical bills are sky-high. Every uninsured individual who gets medical treatment but can't pay means extra money out of your pocket, but without the benefit of lower risk pools that single-payer would give you.

 

[Europe]

View attachment 179957

this is always my concern.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You just told a story of private healthcare failing you.

I read it as the government "helped him".

 

[MTGomer]

You already do pay for other people's healthcare. That's why your insurance keeps going up, and it's why medical bills are sky-high. Every uninsured individual who gets medical treatment but can't pay means extra money out of your pocket, but without the benefit of lower risk pools that single-payer would give you.

I do believe there are single payer or hybrid type systems that would be an improvement over the current system. I’m just not that interested in elimination of private insurance and a total implementation of Medicare for all across the board.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I acknowledge I'm taking out some context, but these statements are in direct conflict.

I don't mind the government buying services from the private sector for those in need. It is very different than the Canadian, UK or EU systems.

 

[Nick87]

@VikingsGuy

So leading cause of death in the US is heart disease...

Dr. Example MD

Student
-------------------------
4 years - BS or BA
4 years - Medical School
-------------------------
Training
3 years - Residency Internal Medicine
4 years - Fellowship Cardiovascular Disease
2 years - Fellowship Structural Heart Disease
2 years - Interventional Cardiology

19 years of training/study Average Salary US $430,000

CEO of United Healthcare
BS Accounting -4 years
Compensation in 2019 $18,900,000

So C-suite at an insurance company is 44x more valuable a doctor, 250x more valuable than a nurse.

$18,900,000 is equivalent to 1,750 peoples premiums if they are paying $900 a month

And the government wastes tax payers money? I dk $200 for a hammer and $500 for a toilet seat doesn't seem all that bad when the alternative is a G-5 and a Mclaren for Mr. Wichmann.

Neither one are all that appealing

 

[rwc101]

I read it as the government "helped him".

 

[Europe]

"ghost guns" - an alliteration people love to use because it sounds great, but they can't actually decide what it means. Apparently, the marketing value is worth more than the supposed concern.

First "ghost guns" were polymer and other non-ferrous guns that would avoid metal detectors and x-ray machines at airports. Then "ghost guns" were made using 3-D printing machines at home using public domain "blueprints". Now they are 80% finished lowers that lack a serial number and don't require a background check. I wonder what scary thing they will refer to in 3 years.

To the "common sense" gun folks, enough with the ever-morphing, but oh so catchy term. Say what you mean and let the discussion begin, quit with catchy phraseology - ghost guns, pink slime, etc - pejorative terms that serve no thoughtful purpose and only serve to whip the unknowing into a suitable state of panic.

I not only agree, but the above is so well written, IMHO, I will use these exact words in a discussion later today. Plus the proverbial iceberg theory, which I also agree with, posted by harley.

 

[VikingsGuy]

That doesn't happen here? Nobody in America finds out they have cancer too late because they can't afford regular doctor visits?

In the cases I know with my family your case gets priority if it is remotely life threatening. Frustrating to wait two months for cataract surgery, but you're alive, have received care, and not financially ruined. Can always buy additional insurance if they so desire.

I have a friend in Winnipeg whos wife needed to be bed ridden for 10 months waiting for a back surgery. I the mean time she had to leave her job and my friend had to go down to part time to take care of the little kids. Their life was hell for a year and they did go bankrupt. Meantime in Minneapolis a coworker has a similar injury and had surgery two weeks after the accident (had to wait for swelling to go down or would have been the same day) and was back at work in a month.

Anecdotes go both ways. Nationalized medicine is a political mantra held dearly by the true believers, not an actual solution to improved health care. It's like ghost gun bans fixing our tragic suicide rate and warzone inner cities. These are all real problems and shame on the GOP for just being the party of NO and not trying to fix them, but that in no way means that government control over every aspect of life is actually a path to a positive outcome either.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I’m in healthcare and it is 100% broken in the United States.

So is my daughter and a number of close friends and they disagree that the govt would help. Anecdotes shouldn't make policy.

Look at how wonderfully the EU is doing on vaccine development and rollout.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I do believe there are single payer or hybrid type systems that would be an improvement over the current system. I’m just not that interested in elimination of private insurance and a total implementation of Medicare for all across the board.

A number of hospital systems, UC Health, MassGenBrigham, Mayo, etc are now offering their own insurance for their networks.

Kaiser has done the opposite and owns hospitals.

I'm interested to see if these moves improve the system or make it worse.

 

[rwc101]

I have a friend in Winnipeg whos wife needed to be bed ridden for 10 months for a back surgery. I the mean time she had to leave her job and my friend had to go down to part time to take care of the little kids. Their life was hell for a year and they did go bankrupt. Meantime in Minneapolis a coworker has a similar injury and had surgery two weeks after the accident (had to wait for swelling to go down or would have been the same day) and was back at work in a month.

Anecdotes go both ways. Nationalized medicine is a political mantra held dearly by the true believers, not an actual solution to improved health care. It's like ghost gun bans fixing our tragic suicide rate and warzone inner cities. These are all real problems and shame on the GOP for just being the party of NO and not trying to fix them, but that in no way means that government control over every aspect of life is actually a path to a positive outcome either.

Oh, gotcha. Winston Churchill aphorisms and some guy in Minnesota's blanket statements have proven all of Western Europe wrong.

 

[ImBillT]

You just told a story of private healthcare failing you.

Nope. I told the story of government ruining the private healthcare that was great.

 

[noharleyyet]

This still the ghost gun thread?
So the Mensa consensus here is 'don't worry, nothing to see here, won't happen, Manchin sump'n, filibuster'....the '22 midterm pandering train keeps on a'rollin'.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

All aboard the idiot train.....today's stop the broken Healthcare museum. We will all learn who it to blame for your sore back and empty wallet.

Edit: the derailment train*

 

[ImBillT]

I don't disagree, but you have to look at why the VA was left to suffer for so long, and who was writing those budgets (i.e. the lobbyists for private healthcare). We have a crisis of veteran suicide, and a VA that follows a model of shuffling around docs and nurses, rather than building teams that have the trust of their patients. I know a lot of VA folks who work across the spectrum, and they are dedicated professionals who dearly want to help veterans. We can listen to them if we want to actually reform and help veterans.

But we're straying far from the topic, and that's my fault.

Apologies to the OP.

Government will never be run well. It’s a fact of life. The wrong people were in charge of the VA because they were not deity. The right person will never be in charge, until it is God. Until then government involvement in the lives of individuals should be kept to a minimum.

 

[ImBillT]

I acknowledge I'm taking out some context, but these statements are in direct conflict.

The service provided through Medicare is still very expensive. The difference is who pays and when. Medicare, and all other social programs simply hide the cost. If a social system is perfect, then it provides the same service for the same cost. If it imperfect, then it provides inferior service at equal or great cost.

 

[Ben Lamb]

All aboard the idiot train.....today's stop the broken Healthcare museum. We will all learn who it to blame for your sore back and empty wallet.

Edit: the derailment train*

Yeah, my apologies again.

 

[4ohSick]

Government will never be run well. It’s a fact of life. The wrong people were in charge of the VA because they were not deity. The right person will never be in charge, until it is God. Until then government involvement in the lives of individuals should be kept to a minimum.

America exists because the British model of God in control didn't work out so well. I'm a Christian, but I recognize that America was founded on freedom of, and freedom FROM, religion. Exalting the people who claim to be doing the work of God is as slippery a slope as any.