Ghost Guns

[Ben Lamb]

I would assume the FBI has stats on it somewhere , it would be interesting to see how many “ghost guns” have been used and crimes/murders.
I would imagine it would be much easier just to steal one or buy a high point off the neighborhood drug dealer for 50 bucks.

Yeah I think it 's probably a bit of tail wagging the dog. Gun Control groups want to get some early "wins" on the books so they can use that as momentum for the bigger gun grabs. This ticks the boxes and riles the right emotions.

I haven't looked into the percentage of ghost guns versus stolen in the use of crime, and I do see an issue with someone buying 100-200 80% guns to manufacture, but I'm not sure making it illegal for the hobbyist who wants to put an AR together is the way to go.

 

[Ben Lamb]

From Biden's press confrence today:

"We should also eliminate gun manufacturers from the immunity they receive from the Congress," Biden said, referring to the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), a law that prevents gunmakers from being sued for crimes committed with guns they sell legally."

Ummm, ok. So it's GM, Ford, etc fault if I drive like an idiot and get in an accident?

That goes back to Big Tobacco and their loss of immunity. The thinking is that if the company recklessly markets those guns and appeals to unstable types, then they should be held liable for that. Given this House though, I'm doubtful they'd craft a slim enough version of this to actually do anything other than piss most industries off.

 

[VikingsGuy]

"ghost guns" - an alliteration people love to use because it sounds great, but they can't actually decide what it means. Apparently, the marketing value is worth more than the supposed concern.

First "ghost guns" were polymer and other non-ferrous guns that would avoid metal detectors and x-ray machines at airports. Then "ghost guns" were made using 3-D printing machines at home using public domain "blueprints". Now they are 80% finished lowers that lack a serial number and don't require a background check. I wonder what scary thing they will refer to in 3 years.

To the "common sense" gun folks, enough with the ever-morphing, but oh so catchy term. Say what you mean and let the discussion begin, quit with catchy phraseology - ghost guns, pink slime, etc - pejorative terms that serve no thoughtful purpose and only serve to whip the unknowing into a suitable state of panic.

 

[noharleyyet]

10 bucks says Joe gets told to call em Jim Crow guns...

 

[Ben Lamb]

10 bucks says Joe gets told to call em Jim Crow guns...

$20 says Georgia will make it illegal to give Ghost Guns a drink of water.

 

[TOGIE]

sure 80%'s should be regulated.

but name a mass shooting where the guy built his gun and circumvented the law in obtaining his gun. i can't think of one that wasn't legally bought off the top of my head

the epidemic is mental health. regulating people with onset mental instabilities is really hard though. maybe it should be easier? when is it a lack of due process? regulating guns themselves for the lowest common denominator of person is a bad idea though.

i don't know what the answer is really

 

[VikingsGuy]

The President will nominate David Chipman to serve as Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. ATF is the key agency enforcing our gun laws, and it needs a confirmed director in order to do the job to the best of its ability. But ATF has not had a confirmed director since 2015. Chipman served at ATF for 25 years and now works to advance commonsense gun safety laws.

David Chipman is a senior policy advisor at Giffords.Previously, David served 25 years as a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). During his tenure, he disrupted firearms trafficking operations in Virginia that were supplying illegal guns to New York City, served as a member of ATF’s version of SWAT, and was named the Special Agent in Charge of ATF’s Firearms Programs. During his tenure at the Department of Justice, David received the Attorney General’s Award for Outstanding Contributions to Community Partnerships for Public Safety in honor of his efforts aimed at preventing gun homicides in targeted US cities. In addition, David has served two terms on the Firearms Committee of the International Association of Chiefs of police.

FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces Initial Actions to Address the Gun Violence Public Health Epidemic | The White House

Today, the Biden-Harris Administration is announcing six initial actions to address the gun violence public health epidemic. The recent high-profile mass shootings in Boulder – taking the lives of 10 individuals – and Atlanta – taking the lives of eight individuals, including six Asian American...

www.whitehouse.gov

It’s a little bit more than just ghost guns. And putting an anti-gun activist at the head of the ATF may not be the best thing for gun owners. But his public land policy is going to be great though.

I doubt he is confirmed, but would then likely just get the interim appointment tag (only one ATF director has made it through the Senate in the last 15 years).

It will be interesting to see if the pace of NFA stamp issuance slows under his leadership. I would expect this group to be starved of staffing/funding and show the commensurate increase delay in the process. I am glad I got my NFA wishes through the system under previous managment.

 

[noharleyyet]

$20 says Georgia will make it illegal to give Ghost Guns a drink of water.

Pshaw...I can get a carton of cigs in Bibb County

 

[Ben Lamb]

sure 80%'s should be regulated.

but name a mass shooting where the guy built his gun and circumvented the law in obtaining his gun. i can't think of one that wasn't legally bought off the top of my head

the epidemic is mental health. regulating people with mental disabilities is really hard though. maybe it should be easier? when is it a lack of due process? regulating guns themselves for the lowest common denominator of person is a bad idea though.

i don't know what the answer is really

National Health System
Free JuCo/Trade School
Trade jobs that lift people into the middle class.

Gun violence tends to boil down to
1.) mental health issues
2.) poverty

Give people in the projects & in the hollers something to reach for other than drugs & guns. I used to be resistant to the concept that the issue w/gun violence is cultural, because I didn't want to believe America was this broken, but it is cultural. We have groups of people who are segregated from others based on economics (not just race, although that does play into it), and with the loss of traditional middle-class jobs in manufacturing, the rise of low-paying service economies & the massive influx of opiods & other drugs in communities as well as the loss of the traditional family unit (Mom & dad & extended support), we are not treating our citizens in a manner that builds better citizens. Just selfish and desperate ones.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Pshaw...I can get a carton of cigs in Bibb County

Ghost smokes!

A pack around here is $9. Clearly these are 80% smokes.

 

[mxracer317]

That goes back to Big Tobacco and their loss of immunity. The thinking is that if the company recklessly markets those guns and appeals to unstable types, then they should be held liable for that. Given this House though, I'm doubtful they'd craft a slim enough version of this to actually do anything other than piss most industries off.

It all comes down to personal accountability of the operator. Otherwise, that is a slippery slope to go down.

 

[VikingsGuy]

National Health System
Free JuCo/Trade School
Trade jobs that lift people into the middle class.

Gun violence tends to boil down to
1.) mental health issues
2.) poverty

Give people in the projects & in the hollers something to reach for other than drugs & guns. I used to be resistant to the concept that the issue w/gun violence is cultural, because I didn't want to believe America was this broken, but it is cultural. We have groups of people who are segregated from others based on economics (not just race, although that does play into it), and with the loss of traditional middle-class jobs in manufacturing, the rise of low-paying service economies & the massive influx of opiods & other drugs in communities as well as the loss of the traditional family unit (Mom & dad & extended support), we are not treating our citizens in a manner that builds better citizens. Just selfish and desperate ones.

I am 100% with you on all but your first 3 words - but that is a debate for another day.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Ghost smokes!

A pack around here is $9. Clearly these are 80% smokes.

"ghost gaspers" - tax avoidant cigarettes bought while visiting Indian reservations

 

[Ben Lamb]

It all comes down to personal accountability of the operator. Otherwise, that is a slippery slope to go down.

Corporate accountability is an American trait as well. If there's a company actively marketing to militia members, gangs, etc, wouldn't we wan to hold them liable for the damages that they caused by bad marketing & intentional conflict generation?

I am 100% with you on all but your first 3 words - but that is a debate for another day.

The vast majority of gun violence is suicide. Access to mental health means far less gun violence. Mental Health is often stigmatized & ignored by men, who are most likely to kill themselves with firearms. Normalizing & funding and providing it to folks like Veterans and others means better outcomes for everyone.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

sure 80%'s should be regulated.

but name a mass shooting where the guy built his gun and circumvented the law in obtaining his gun. i can't think of one that wasn't legally bought off the top of my head

the epidemic is mental health. regulating people with mental disabilities is really hard though. maybe it should be easier? when is it a lack of due process? regulating guns themselves for the lowest common denominator of person is a bad idea though.

i don't know what the answer is really

I am honestly surprised that video games don’t get more flack. To me this is one of the biggest changes over the past 30 years that correlates to the rise of these mass shootings. Teenage minds aren’t developed and when you are spending hours everyday killing people online I’m sure that affects you, even if it’s only subconsciously.

But again, they tried regulating video games with the different ratings. Laws will always be broken.

 

[mevertsen]

The most common way is that you purchase what is referred to an 80% lower. This in essence is not a finished lower and cannot be turned directly into a firearm so no serial number is required to purchase as it is just a chunk of metal. However it’s 80% of the way to a lower receiver. You then buy the jigs to drill the rest out and modify the last few parts until it is a finished lower. It now is supposed to receive a serial number but who would be watching you if your in your garage... now you go to the gun store or order offline all other parts to assemble your firearm. Now if you didn’t apply for a serial number when you finished your lower like you’re supposed to (not sure what other state laws are but I am referring to California because I am familiar could be for all states but idk other states laws). You would now have a functioning firearm without a serial number

No serial number is required if you build your own gun and don't plan to resell it, or conduct business of manufacturing firearms. You could mill one out from a solid block of aluminum if you wanted to.

 

[morley.tyler]

sure 80%'s should be regulated.

but name a mass shooting where the guy built his gun and circumvented the law in obtaining his gun. i can't think of one that wasn't legally bought off the top of my head

the epidemic is mental health. regulating people with mental disabilities is really hard though. maybe it should be easier? when is it a lack of due process? regulating guns themselves for the lowest common denominator of person is a bad idea though.

i don't know what the answer is really

THIS is the challenge. HIPPA laws severely restrict the ability to make the mental health of the individual a matter of public record. If we can't get together on not allowing those on the No-Fly list from buying guns, how can we agree on folks who've sought help for depression, anger, or suicide issues?

 

[Lyfter1013]

No serial number is required if you build your own gun and don't plan to resell it, or conduct business of manufacturing firearms. You could mill one out from a solid block of aluminum if you wanted to.

Depends on your state that’s why I put in parentheses that I was referring to the laws in California because I’m Not familiar with other states laws.

 

[1_pointer]

National Health System
Free JuCo/Trade School
Trade jobs that lift people into the middle class.

Gun violence tends to boil down to
1.) mental health issues
2.) poverty

Give people in the projects & in the hollers something to reach for other than drugs & guns. I used to be resistant to the concept that the issue w/gun violence is cultural, because I didn't want to believe America was this broken, but it is cultural. We have groups of people who are segregated from others based on economics (not just race, although that does play into it), and with the loss of traditional middle-class jobs in manufacturing, the rise of low-paying service economies & the massive influx of opiods & other drugs in communities as well as the loss of the traditional family unit (Mom & dad & extended support), we are not treating our citizens in a manner that builds better citizens. Just selfish and desperate ones.

"Free" would be nice, but somone's gotta pay for it. Be nice if it was not me...

I also think the loss of the traditional family unit, especially 2 parents, have impacts that are greatly underplayed by most folks. I'd not be surprised if it's not one of the highest correlation predictors for success/wealth, however that is defined.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Corporate accountability is an American trait as well. If there's a company actively marketing to militia members, gangs, etc, wouldn't we wan to hold them liable for the damages that they caused by bad marketing & intentional conflict generation?


The vast majority of gun violence is suicide. Access to mental health means far less gun violence. Mental Health is often stigmatized & ignored by men, who are most likely to kill themselves with firearms. Normalizing & funding and providing it to folks like Veterans and others means better outcomes for everyone.

I am 100% with you on fixing a profoundly broken approach to mental health. I just don't trust the Govt to actually fix it. So I should have said in my prior remarks, "I agree with all but your first word".