For Greenhorn

[The Hedgehog]

RockyDog, I'm pretty sure Chuck Adams hasn't ever taken an elk on the Flying D. Arnaud has much better leases in MT that Chuck Adams hunts, and has for over a decade.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Just kind of "chaps" me a little bit when people are so quick to judge and assume that they know where, when and how that Eastman's and/or other people in the industry got the trophies that they did and are just sure that they took that animal away from some other hunter or leased some ground out from under someone else.

Quick to judge and assume? Maybe. This past fall I took my girlfriend hunting on a ranch that I've hunted for years, without paying any fees although I've worked for the rancher. A neighboring rancher confronted us, as he had leased a portion of the ranch for outfitting.. his first clients were to be the Eastmans and a film crew. He called the landowner and confirmed my permission and agreed to let us hunt -- does.

As for Chuck Adams, I read the article RockyDog mentioned too, about killing his world record elk on public land, competing with at least 5 other hunters for this wary, hunter-pressured monster. I could be quick to assume bullshit, but Rob Arnaud himself told me that bull was killed by Chuck Adams on his best deer lease, the Booth Ranch, a 70,000 acre spread just west of Colstrip MT. Only one elk hunter annually, and it's some special arrangement with Chuck Adams. No advertising of elk hunting there, as the cash cow is supreme-end deer hunts on that property which I believe run for 7K+.. which is spendy for Montana.

Could be some bullshitting outfitters/guides/hunters. What I do know is I don't believe much of what I read these days..

Don't believe what I just typed either.. I could be making it all up because I'm so jealous.

 

[Big Shooter]

Moosie.........thanks for the support, I really appreciated it as it seems I kicked a hornets nest by standing behind the Eastman crew and what they do and how they do it.

In my opinion they do a great job with both the magazine as well as the T.V. show, as probably 98% of the hunts that they do are D.I.Y., on public ground, which is quite an accomplishment in it's self. The other 2% is the one hunt that they take the subscriber on for mule deer and now one for elk in Colorado, and all that it costs those guys that win the hunt is the cost of one subscription. It would be pretty hard to do that if they were at the mercy of the lottery every year hoping that those hunt winners draw the tag. As for them having any lease land for big $$$....probably not.

Greenhorn.......at least you got to shoot some does.

 

[sreekers]

Shooter, I don't know where you live, but the "Eastman Way, No fences Here" has long died. Go back and look at your issues that it sounds like you have sitting next to your armchair. Guy has killed quite a few Mulies on private land. The problem the guys here have isn't that he does it, it is that he goes out of his way to tell people he does it on public, and does something completely different.

Now, the books they have written, and the accomplishments they have made, good for them. I have learned quite a bit about hunting from them. There is no denying that.

As for getting in arguments with Greenhorn, its usually not worth it. He knows his stuff, and if you want to learn a little about Public Land hunting, he would be a great person to ask for tips. If you don't believe me go look at some of his previous posts that have pictures.

If you plan on sticking around this site, get some thick skin(not that don't allready). There are a lot of guys here, from a LOT of different backgrounds. We come here because we love sharing pictures, having healthy conversation, and laughing at Jose's questions he never answers(jk, jose).

Welcome to Hunttalk, show us some pictures, would love to see how your past seasons have turned out!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Big Shooter, 98% are DIY on public ground? Is that so?

Are you on the Eastman's dole?

 

[The Hedgehog]

I dont' have anything bad to say about guided hunts, hunting on private land, etc.. Film them, show them on TV.. that's great. I'd watch. I like hunting big dumb animals on private land. Fun stuff, no problem there. It would be great to do that for a living, along with some other fun hunting all over the west.

But for those marketing themselves as the DIY public land champions of the world, writing how-to books on the subject, or the worlds best elk bowhunter who overcomes all odds (like everybody else) don't expect to take a little flack when you step outside a self-built over-hyped image created to market yourself or your business.

What would Jesus do?

 

[BuzzH]

Apparently BigShooter needs to look up the word "gullible" in the dictionary...along with anyone else who believes Chuckie and the Eastmans are out there with the rest of the public hunting DIY on public land.

What a joke.

How about those 2 big mule deer Guy killed several years ago? Both on private land, one in Wyoming and one in Kansas.

If they really wanted to market what they're doing, their message should be, "find a good job, one that pays enough to afford guided hunts, exclusive leases, and purchasing landowner tags...forget about competing with average guys on public land".

Because thats exactly what they're doing, both Chuckie and the Eastmans.

Like Greenhorn said, nothing wrong with that...right up to the point where you lie about it and try to pass it off as a DIY public land hunt that anyone else could do.

At that point, you've lost all credibility and are nothing more than a liar.

 

[Big Shooter]

Sreekers, thanks for the warm "Welcome", I honestly appreciate it as well as the tips on how to get along, I realize that I didn't start off on the right foot here, and believe me, I am pretty thick skinned, my opinions require it. I have read a lot of these posts, including Greenhorns, for quite a while now until I had to say something in their defense. As for the healthy converations I enjoy them as well, just doesn't mean that I have to agree with all of them and can't stick up for someone that's getting hacked on by people "assuming" that all of the hunting is done on private ground that they lease and pay big "$$$" for when it is not the case.

i will see what I can do about the photos, I might be able to scare up some photos of some forkys some place.

 

[Oak]

I actually looked at Eastman's website yesterday when this topic came up. They have 13 hunts on their schedule this year, 7 of which are DIY public land hunts. The way they promote the DIY public land message, most people probably assume that 98% of their hunts are on public land.

Here's a homework assignment for everyone. There is a new episode of Eastman's Hunting TV airing tonight....a Cameron Hanes elk hunt in Colorado. I suspect that it was filmed on a Ranching For Wildlife ranch, with a guaranteed landowner license. Maybe I'm wrong. There's nothing wrong with that anyway, as long as you're not making comments like:

"Everything started going in the wrong direction toward commercialized hunting when they started issuing guaranteed tags," Eastman said of arrangements like Colorado's landowner preference permits. "Once the money gets involved, things get messy.

Let's tune in and see if the Eastman's are practicing what they preach.

 

[The Hedgehog]

7 divided by 13 times 100 equals 98?

stick up for someone that's getting hacked on by people "assuming" that all of the hunting is done on private ground that they lease and pay big "$$$"

Big Shooter, let me know where I've assumed something like that. I've never once said ALL hunting is done on private ground or that "Eastmans" lease anything. I agree they do have a great message. But they don't always practice what they preach. I'm sure they are probably great folks, ethical hunters, etc..

I do assume some things though .. like you being on the dole.

 

[MTwapiti]

My favorite part of the article is when he claims he was the only one to do his homework and find the access to the public ground. I guarantee that if I were one of the 5 chasing that bull, I'd make sure I knew every piece of ground that was public or had an easement to public land. After all it's not every day you see a bull like that.

We did just that when I lived in Colorado, the unit we hunted was comprised of a lot of private and public land and a lot of the land owners were not inclined to give hunting permission. We had to be careful not to trespass. One guy I knew who had a deer tag for the last rifle season had the Sheriff and DOW called on him. His hunt was legal, maybe not well advised, and the reporting land owner was cited for harassment of the hunter.

 

[Big Shooter]

Greenhorn, I am glad that we could agree on some things and I am sure that they are great guys too, as well as ethical, and continue to assume what you will.


P.S. Love the math......!

 

[The Hedgehog]

I've a feeling if my assumption was wrong, you'd have said so. You sure about that 98% again? Are you in the Marketing department, because I've another feeling you ain't the one putting the draw odd stats together for the MRS section.

Here's some information real DIY hunters want to know when they watch a TV program...How the hunter found the hunting location, how he got the license, how many days they scouted for the hunt, how much it cost overall... wouldn't that be a unique concept for a hunting TV program to include that kind of information.

 

[Big Shooter]

Greenhorn, I agree, that would be a unique concept for a TV program, all of the above, similiar to what they compile in the MRS every issue. Notice I said "they" not "we". As for the percentages, my bad, next time I will use words like "majority" or "almost all of" instead of speaking figuratively. So..."The majority of the hunts that they do are DIY and almost all of them are on public ground."

 

[The Hedgehog]

So..."The majority of the hunts that they do are DIY and almost all of them are on public ground."

Good point, so technically, 53% is "the majority." and with "almost all".. one can assume it's only in very rare circumstances.. Right.

So, yes or no, you are/were affiliated with Eastman's?

 

[Lawnboy]

Fin's new show is going to appeal to all of those new ideals that have been mentioned. Hopefully some network has the nuggets to step up and show something different. Actually filming other hunters that are competing after the same animals you are is unheard of. Fin has done that. Welcome to public land reality.

I hunted with a local from Colstrip this last year. He was telling me that Chuck's sister I believe is either the owner or girlfriend/wife of the that ranch were the big one was killed. With that said I don't think he technically has to pay for hunting on that land. Not sure if this info is valid but the guy is a die hard hunter from Colstrip and knows the area well.

 

[BRI]

Chuck's guide, Doyle Shipp who he mentions many times is the ranch manager of Booth Land and Livestock. In 1998 I spent many days on that ranch and saw a lot of big animals.

 

[Big Fin]

Watching it on the tube right now. Former Eastman's bowhunting guru, Cameron Hanes, is hunting on a very cool (he used that word almost every sentence) ranch in Colorado. Probably a cool stack of Benjies (Ben Franklins) will get you there, but I am sure that doesn't fit into that high-dollar guaranteed tag stuff.

And, Cameron is chasing a bull that he had his eye on last season. Lucky dude drew two years in a row in the premium area in CO, a state with preference points. Damn, I have 12 elk points and I haven't yet figured out how to draw one of those great CO elk tags, let alone two years in a row. Since they are not doing the high-dollar gig that Guy hates so bad, Cameron must have drawn them in the public draw, right. Talk about lucky.

Why would they run this at the end of the show? -

Special thanks to Hill Ranches. Contact Bobby Hill at [email protected]. Ol' Bobby wouldn't be the fella who owns the high-dollar ranches with the landowner tags, would it? Nah, I am sure they just went there to get some elk footage.

On Outdoor Channel, which for my Direct TV is 606.

 

[Oak]

The Hill Ranch, huh? Impossible. There are only three resident tags available, and it took 18 points to draw this year. The hunt is in late November, not during the rut when Cameron was hunting. Weird.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Very Strange indeed.