FOIA - $150 WY NR Wilderness Rule Fine amount; WY 23-2-401(a)

[TheTone]

For purpose of:
1.) Proper Game Management
2.) Protection of hunter welfare and safety
3.) better enforcement of game and fish laws

2018 Wyoming Statutes :: TITLE 23 - GAME AND FISH :: CHAPTER 2 - LICENSES; FEES :: ARTICLE 4 - GUIDES AND OUTFITTERS :: SECTION 23-2-401 - Guides required; exceptions; issuance of resident guide license.

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Was being a bit snarky...

If one reason is better enforcement of game and fish laws I would be curious how many residents were cited for big game violations in wilderness areas during the same time period. My guess is it was more than twelve

 

[Archer86]

For purpose of:
1.) Proper Game Management
2.) Protection of hunter welfare and safety
3.) better enforcement of game and fish laws

2018 Wyoming Statutes :: TITLE 23 - GAME AND FISH :: CHAPTER 2 - LICENSES; FEES :: ARTICLE 4 - GUIDES AND OUTFITTERS :: SECTION 23-2-401 - Guides required; exceptions; issuance of resident guide license.

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Was being a bit snarky...

That's a dangerous law if you read into it more it says that the commission can require guides or resident guides for other areas or species if its thinks is necessary so that law is not just wilderness area they could go statewide if the wanted to or require a guide for the big 5 surprised wyoga hasn't tried to use that yet

 

[wytex]

That's a dangerous law if you read into it more it says that the commission can require guides or resident guides for other areas or species if its thinks is necessary so that law is not just wilderness area they could go statewide if the wanted to or require a guide for the big 5 surprised wyoga hasn't tried to use that yet

At one time I believe all NR hunters had to use an outfitter or guide in Wyoming for big game.

 

[Sytes]

I wasn't around in 1984, but was the justification for this law actually about the safety of nonresidents?

An interesting read including portions directly related to, "the safety of nonresidents" as the specific reason.

One example, used in this Meateater article:

"The law remained in place until 1973, when theSchakel v. State of Wyoming case found it was discriminatory to prevent non-resident hunters from accessing public lands administered by the federal government.
The court also determined the safety of non-resident hunters was not a legitimate basis for enforcing the law, stating, “An examination of the statute demonstrates that it can have little if any relationship to such objective. The dangers to a hunter of antelope would seem as great as to a hunter of deer. We can see no manner in which it would be any less dangerous for an antelope hunter than a deer hunter in the same area at the same time.”"

MeatEater Opinion: The West’s Worst Hunting Law

A few years back, shortly after our family moved into a new home, I killed a cow elk in the federally designated wilderness area just a mile from my back door. It wasn’t until after I had notched my tag, quartered the elk and packed the meat down the mountain that I realized how lucky I was to...

www.themeateater.com

 

[Sytes]

Not sure I buy the FOIA details claimed here.

$50 = inflation? This was from 1984. It's plausible considering there is record of a fraction of a charge... I mean fine for his hunt.

[¶1.] Keiran W. O'Brien (appellant) was convicted, and fined $100 by a justice of the peace for Park County, on January 18, 1984, of hunting in a federal wilderness area unaccompanied by a licensed professional guide or resident guide, in violation of W.S. 23-2-401(a) and (b).1

O'Brien v. State

O'Brien v. State - 1986 WY 8, 711 P.2d 1144

law.justia.com

 

[232401a]

Not sure I buy the FOIA details claimed here.

Please email [email protected]

Tell them that you do NOT need new data collected on this, but you just want the exact same information forwarded to you that they sent out to the original requestor on 8/29/2022, 2:37pm.

I could post the PDFs of all 12 LEO reports but those reports contain the names and addresses of those twelve horrible law violators. Obtaining the reports directly from WGF should alleviate your concern that I have altered data.

 

[manitou1]

I found this very interesting on my last Wyoming Elk hunt. I met several friendly residents and nonresidents alike but two Wyoming residents in particular stood out to me. One had a guide license and was with his son who had an archery elk tag and another resident who had stock who were both hunting non wilderness area where I was as a non resident. I discussed with both of them at length the obvious of why they were not hunting the wilderness area? They had both hunted wilderness earlier in the season and there were various reasons why they were hunting the non wilderness but common themes from both of them were even wilderness areas can be crowded with people and there was just as many elk off wilderness as in the wilderness. That really opened my eyes. The natural feeling is the grass is always greener where you cannot hunt. I'm sure that is not the case in all wilderness areas but I wanted to share what I learned on my hunt.

Been saying that all along. I live really close to wilderness area here and don't hunt it.
Kind of like when you go to your favorite restaurant and order, but while waiting the table next to you gets their food and you think: Man I wish I would have ordered that.
In sales it is called the "takeaway", ie: Well Mr. _______, I'm not sure if this is for you or "Mr.______ I am not sure if we can make this happen.
People always want what they can't have, whether it is needed/better or not.

 

[brocksw]

Our nation's wilderness is a special place, and you are welcome to camp there, fish, take pictures, hike, do naked yoga, etc.. But, if you can't pull the trigger on a big game animal, your appreciation is unfulfilled?
I get it, it's outfitter welfare, I don't disagree, and I don't care for it anymore than you. But, here's a newsflash: it isn't going away, get over it.
Everything you seek in the nation's wilderness in Wyoming is available to nonresidents in plenty of other places, sans the "wilderness designation". Enjoy!

Are you an outfitter? Why would you be so supportive of this nonsensical law?

 

[Gulf of Ontario]

I'm not an outfitter.
I didn't say I supported it, in fact I said I didn't care for it. I was just questioning his argument that he needed to be able to hunt big game inside a wilderness area in Wyoming to fully appreciate it.
My broader point is that Wyoming gives nonresidents as much or more opportunities than any other state in the US, yet they constantly beat this horse to death. It's like some weird FOMO syndrome or something.

 

[Moserkr]

So I cant hunt wilderness area in WY without a guide as a NR, for my safety or lack of understanding of the law or whatever excuse…. But in the next breath I can buy land in WY, move, and go hunt there next year as a resident. All of a sudden those magical excuses of why I cant hunt wilderness go away. Got it. Careful what ya wish for…. Those pesky californian’s might just be your new neighbor so they can hunt the “special” places.

If I held a NR tag that has wilderness in the zone Id hunt it if I wanted to, fine or no fine. If Im outside the wilderness by 1 foot and the elk is 100 yards inside the wilderness, im shooting it…. WY could zone it differently cause I have a problem with paying for a tag that covers an area that is federally funded by my tax dollars, then being told im not capable of my own safety or lack intelligence to understand regulations to safely? hunt there. Its ridiculously silly and I know its not changing anytime soon.

 

[TheTone]

Just read about two non residents in Idaho that hit the SOS button and had to be rescued. They were found less than a mile from their vehicle and it wasn’t even wilderness! Imagine if they had attempted a Wyoming hunt

 

[mtmiller]

Been saying that all along. I live really close to wilderness area here and don't hunt it.
Kind of like when you go to your favorite restaurant and order, but while waiting the table next to you gets their food and you think: Man I wish I would have ordered that.
In sales it is called the "takeaway", ie: Well Mr. _______, I'm not sure if this is for you or "Mr.______ I am not sure if we can make this happen.
People always want what they can't have, whether it is needed/better or not.

Actually I don't care if it is your favorite restaurant, I have decided you are not welcome to eat here. Go across the street.

 

[232401a]

... Assuming they are correct, letting the internet world know WyF&G is extremely soft on this particular State Statute isn't going to help anyone in the future. Sometimes keeping things to yourself is a great answer.

Absolutely. I sat on these FOIA results for 6 weeks pondering the pros and cons of sharing.

In the end, I felt the public interest weighed in favor of disclosure.

 

[brocksw]

I'm not an outfitter.
I didn't say I supported it, in fact I said I didn't care for it. I was just questioning his argument that he needed to be able to hunt big game inside a wilderness area in Wyoming to fully appreciate it.
My broader point is that Wyoming gives nonresidents as much or more opportunities than any other state in the US, yet they constantly beat this horse to death. It's like some weird FOMO syndrome or something.

So you don't support it, but you like it, want it to stay and don't think NRs have a right to bitch about not being able to hunt the land their tax money pays for? You see the contradiction right? How can you hold both stances?

 

[PrairieHunter]

So I cant hunt wilderness area in WY without a guide as a NR, for my safety or lack of understanding of the law or whatever excuse…. But in the next breath I can buy land in WY, move, and go hunt there next year as a resident. All of a sudden those magical excuses of why I cant hunt wilderness go away. Got it. Careful what ya wish for…. Those pesky californian’s might just be your new neighbor so they can hunt the “special” places.

If I held a NR tag that has wilderness in the zone Id hunt it if I wanted to, fine or no fine. If Im outside the wilderness by 1 foot and the elk is 100 yards inside the wilderness, im shooting it…. WY could zone it differently cause I have a problem with paying for a tag that covers an area that is federally funded by my tax dollars, then being told im not capable of my own safety or lack intelligence to understand regulations to safely? hunt there. Its ridiculously silly and I know its not changing anytime soon.

The Californians who move here leave after the first winter in most cases.

Other states have rules for NR's hunting public land. Look up South Dakota. They have had all sorts of fun laws like not allowing NR's to hunt public land for the first week of the season, NR's not allowed to deer hunt public land, etc...

I would support a system where Colorado and California people were not allowed to hunt/fish public land without a outfitter on certain days of the week, first part of the season, and had to pay more than other NR"s for tags, camping, licenses, etc. Including rewards for catching the California and Colorado folks breaking the rules including getting their tags, gun, gear, and a cash fine they have to pay or go to jail for 48 hours.

 

[jlong17]

The Californians who move here leave after the first winter in most cases.

Other states have rules for NR's hunting public land. Look up South Dakota. They have had all sorts of fun laws like not allowing NR's to hunt public land for the first week of the season, NR's not allowed to deer hunt public land, etc...

I would support a system where Colorado and California people were not allowed to hunt/fish public land without a outfitter on certain days of the week, first part of the season, and had to pay more than other NR"s for tags, camping, licenses, etc. Including rewards for catching the California and Colorado folks breaking the rules including getting their tags, gun, gear, and a cash fine they have to pay or go to jail for 48 hours.

 

[Gulf of Ontario]

So you don't support it, but you like it, want it to stay and don't think NRs have a right to bitch about not being able to hunt the land their tax money pays for? You see the contradiction right? How can you hold both stances?

Whatever makes you happy bro. If pounding away on a computer keyboard helps take the pain away, keep at it. When you're done beating this horse you can take your fight to Alaska. Good luck.

 

[brocksw]

Whatever makes you happy bro. If pounding away on a computer keyboard helps take the pain away, keep at it. When you're done beating this horse you can take your fight to Alaska. Good luck.

non sequitur

 

[BuzzH]

So you don't support it, but you like it, want it to stay and don't think NRs have a right to bitch about not being able to hunt the land their tax money pays for? You see the contradiction right? How can you hold both stances?

About those tax dollars you spend on wilderness management do you want your 3 pennies all at once or in 3 monthly installments?

Would be nice if you didn't choose the installments, postage sending a penny a month gets expensive.

 

[brocksw]

About those tax dollars you spend on wilderness management do you want your 3 pennies all at once or in 3 monthly installments?

Would be nice if you didn't choose the installments, postage sending a penny a month gets expensive.

The whole is more than the sum of its parts.