Elk Shoulder Season article

[d-edward]

Article in the paper here regarding proposed changes - or lack of changes - to shoulder seasons from MTFWP.

Elk shoulder season north of Livingston proposed for removal

"There wasn't a good justification to continue with the season there. That tool wasn't working."

www.bozemandailychronicle.com

 

[PaulRevere]

 

[d-edward]

It is difficult to hone in on just a single, salient point from this sparsely sourced article, but seems the landowner is concerned that the post-general season mop up hunts he has grown accustomed to over the past few years will impact the ability to control cow numbers.

I find it telling that the number of elk harvested on his property has progressively declined - I suspect those elk have moved off to adjoining properties. It is not clear to me the overall motives of the landowner without the full discussion between he and the reporter, but my presupposition is his concerns stem partly from losing this ability to host shoulder hunts as a wildlife management tool and partly from lost revenue for hunters interested in harvesting a late season cow who obtain access or hunt on his property. The reporter could have included more detail for the general reader on why there is opposition from the hunting community on shoulder seasons outside the snippet on prolonged hunting pressure.

 

[Drake4]

I find it telling that the number of elk harvested on his property has progressively declined - I suspect those elk have moved off to adjoining properties. It is not clear to me the overall motives of the landowner without the full discussion between he and the reporter, but my presupposition is his concerns stem partly from losing this ability to host shoulder hunts as a wildlife management tool and partly from lost revenue for hunters interested in harvesting a late season cow who obtain access or hunt on his property. The reporter could have included more detail for the general reader on why there is opposition from the hunting community on shoulder seasons outside the snippet on prolonged hunting pressure.

Winner, winner....The Hayhook Ranch charged $200-$300/hunter for access to shoulder season cows in the past. I have not heard what they are charging this year, as I don't believe the elk are on the ranch yet. Sky Anderson is only worried about a lost revenue of $10k-$25k/year due to the elimination of the shoulder season. Nothing else.

 

[d-edward]

Winner, winner....The Hayhook Ranch charged $200-$300/hunter for access to shoulder season cows in the past. I have not heard what they are charging this year, as I don't believe the elk are on the ranch yet. Sky Anderson is only worried about a lost revenue of $10k-$25k/year due to the elimination of the shoulder season. Nothing else.

Conveniently left out of the article, huh? I don't have an issue with him outfitting bull/cow hunts during general - his property, his prerogative. But shoulder seasons were authorized as a privilege, not a right. Feels misguided to moan to the Chronicle in the name of population control/management objectives when as you describe it seems more a hit to the pocketbook he is concerned with.

 

[BuzzH]

Heres another fun fact about the shoulder seasons and how easy they are to "control".

A good friend of mine that watches the elk on the North Hills right close to the RMEF headquarters in Missoula, watched 2 get shot about a week and a half ago. The hunters found one of the cows right away and he could see the other one laying dead and the hunters trying to locate it. Since the season was supposedly "closed" due to the 200ish elk that the biologists couldn't find during spring counts, he called the MTFWP and turned them in.

In no shock to anyone, the only thing that happened was the warden, via telephone with my buddy, helped the guy find the dead cow. When my buddy asked why no tickets were issued, is that the regulation book couldn't be changed in time. So according to the regulations, that area is still open to cow hunting and the warden said there was "nothing we can do about it."

I wonder if another bunch of elk will mysteriously not be found again this year? I can hardly wait for the excuses on why they wont be found.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Heres another fun fact about the shoulder seasons and how easy they are to "control".

A good friend of mine that watches the elk on the North Hills right close to the RMEF headquarters in Missoula, watched 2 get shot about a week and a half ago. The hunters found one of the cows right away and he could see the other one laying dead and the hunters trying to locate it. Since the season was supposedly "closed" due to the 200ish elk that the biologists couldn't find during spring counts, he called the MTFWP and turned them in.

In no shock to anyone, the only thing that happened was the warden, via telephone with my buddy, helped the guy find the dead cow. When my buddy asked why no tickets were issued, is that the regulation book couldn't be changed in time. So according to the regulations, that area is still open to cow hunting and the warden said there was "nothing we can do about it."

I wonder if another bunch of elk will mysteriously not be found again this year? I can hardly wait for the excuses on why they wont be found.

Hard to find elk while flying if they’re in a chest freezer.

 

[Straight Arrow]

... as I don't believe the elk are on the ranch yet.

'Don't know about that, but it seems for some reason this season, the HD 393 ellk left higher elevations and winter-herded lower where little access for hunting, plus the previously open RY BMA up Olsen Creek was closed after purchase by the Lazy J Ranch. I spoke with Howard Burt who explained that the shoulder season elk harvest objectives were not being met and the expected increased access (free public access) on the larger private land elk habitat didn't happen either. At least in this case, FWP is trying to follow the shoulder season criteria in analyzing the effectiveness. However, it may be an anomaly.

 

[MTGomer]

Commission chastises Montana FWP for continuing elk shoulder seasons

The Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks’ staff has been “unresponsive” in drafting new hunting proposals embracing the Fish and Wildlife Commission’s expressed desire to move away from six-month shoulder

missoulian.com

“you’re not taking that tool away.”
-Martha Williams, Director FWP

 

[golfer]

Interesting they bring up page 55 of the EMP and then turn around and say consideration is given to landowners with crop damage complaints. I don’t think they should be allowed to complain if they have any sort of fee to even have the chance at those elk.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Be nice to see some real leadership on this issue beyond posturing from all sides. Nature and the Legislature abhor a vacuum.

 

[406dn]

Winner, winner....The Hayhook Ranch charged $200-$300/hunter for access to shoulder season cows in the past. I have not heard what they are charging this year, as I don't believe the elk are on the ranch yet. Sky Anderson is only worried about a lost revenue of $10k-$25k/year due to the elimination of the shoulder season. Nothing else.

Wow. I have never taken part in a shoulder hunt for all the usual reasons. I would never ever pay some one a trespass fee like that to hunt cow elk.

 

[Sioux33]

Interesting they bring up page 55 of the EMP and then turn around and say consideration is given to landowners with crop damage complaints. I don’t think they should be allowed to complain if they have any sort of fee to even have the chance at those elk.

Brett French brought up page 55, not anyone from the FWP. In fact, I've never, not even once, heard anyone from the FWP reference page 55. I mean, why would they want to shed light on the one tool they have at their disposal to actually manage elk? Isn't it easier to just stay blind to it and cave to the landowners and outfitters who are really the ones pulling the strings???

 

[tjones]

Brett French brought up page 55, not anyone from the FWP. In fact, I've never, not even once, heard anyone from the FWP reference page 55. I mean, why would they want to shed light on the one tool they have at their disposal to actually manage elk? Isn't it easier to just stay blind to it and cave to the landowners and outfitters who are really the ones pulling the strings???

For years it’s been used in HD 270. Flight surveys were done of the CB Ranch after the general season opener and deducted from the following spring green up count. That number was used as the population towards the objective. The past few years the flights have not been done as the CB is allowing a fairly good cow harvest.

As far as I know it’s the only HD in the state to ever use it.

 

[timmy]

Commission chastises Montana FWP for continuing elk shoulder seasons

The Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks’ staff has been “unresponsive” in drafting new hunting proposals embracing the Fish and Wildlife Commission’s expressed desire to move away from six-month shoulder

missoulian.com

“you’re not taking that tool away.”
-Martha Williams, Director FWP

FWP does what they want. Only thing that could hold them accountable is the legislature and they are worse than the FWP.

 

[Sioux33]

For years it’s been used in HD 270. Flight surveys were done of the CB Ranch after the general season opener and deducted from the following spring green up count. That number was used as the population towards the objective. The past few years the flights have not been done as the CB is allowing a fairly good cow harvest.

As far as I know it’s the only HD in the state to ever use it.

Interesting. FWP must just pick and choose where they want to actually manage elk then. You'd think with all the talk over the past few years regarding shoulder seasons and access issues in units that clearly are over objective from inaccessible elk, you'd at least hear an explanation why it's ok to use it in 270, but not any others.

 

[tjones]

The only reason it was used in HD270 was the local sportsman group pushed for 2 years to get them to use it. At one point 1/3 of the total population was inaccessible to hunters when the general season opened yet FWP set season for the total population.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think FWP know all the things brought up here. The target elk numbers are BS and set to make landowners happy, they know landowners might be driven by the almighty $ and are probably going to complain no matter what happens, so they don't necessarily manage to those numbers. I would much rather FWP move to issuing cow-only tags in the general season than shoulder season tags which pressure the elk for 6-7 months. Just my preference. And probably more effective...