Coal Bed Methane

[Oak]

(Note that this is not the photo Buzz has posted in the past)

I'm curious to hear some opinions on the great increases in CBM production recently. What do you think of the process? Is it worth it? What are the alternatives? Is it even an issue?

WHAT IS COAL BED METHANE?

Coal bed methane (CBM) is a byproduct of the coalification process, and can be found wherever coal is found. During coalification, buried plant material is converted to methane, water, nitrogen, and carbon dioxide by heat and chemical processes. Methane is held on the surface of the coal by water pressure. To release the methane, developers drill down to underground coal seam aquifers. Then, with a submersible water pump, they pump out groundwater. This lowers the water table and releases the methane gas. The methane rises to the surface and is collected and piped to compressor stations, where is compressed and shipped to market.

Historically, CBM has been considered a nuisance and a safety threat to underground coal miners. Because of these safety threats, the federal government has invested in CBM studies for decades. Until recently, commercial development has not been viable. However, rising natural gas prices and improved extraction technologies have fueled a strong interest in CBM development, particularly in the Powder River Basin (PRB), which spans north-central Wyoming and southeastern Montana.

Unlined discharge "impoundment" in WY

EXTENT OF DEVELOPMENT

Projections for development in Montana start at 9,950 wells (a May 2000 industry projection based on a price of $1.80 per million cubic feet (mcf). The Bureau of Land Management's (BLM) more recent reasonably foreseeable development scenario predicts 10,000 to 26,000 wells in Montana in the next two decades. In Wyoming, the BLM is predicting 51,000 wells by 2010. Based on BLM estimates, the entire Powder River Basin could see as many as 76,000 wells in just 20 years. The Powder River Basin is estimated to contain 30 to 40 trillion cubic feet of coal bed methane. U.S. consumption of natural gas is 22 trillion cubic feet per year. The PRB would fuel U.S. consumption for approximately 22 months.

State and federal water quality regulators are concerned that coal-bed methane discharge water stored in a reservoir just west of the Campbell-Johnson County(WY) line may be leaking into the area's groundwater, according to agency documents obtained by an environmental group this week...

...The reservoir holds only about 15 acre-feet of discharge water and is used primarily for research purposes by Anadarko, the DEQ, the BLM and the U.S. Geological Survey, and the impacts, if any, of the seeping water are almost certainly tiny.

But if the results from Skewed Reservoir are indicative of how water moves from coal-bed methane reservoirs to groundwater aquifers throughout the Powder River Basin, where thousands of similar reservoirs exist, they could be a harbinger of more serious problems to come.

**LINK**

CBM field in WY

Here's a couple of groups (ranchers and farmers, not environmentalists) who are concerned about CBM development

Powder River Basin Resource Council

Northern Plains Resource Council

 

[mtmiller]

This should be interesting. I am glad the potential is low in my part of MT. I was recently asked if I had any interest in a job out of the Miles City office (major CBM development). Not only "no", but "hell no".

I am all for developing natural resources, but those pictures speak for themselves.

I really feel for the private landowners with split estate.

Looking forward to hearing comments.

 

[BuzzH]

Are comments really needed????

 

[Nut]

I wonder what it looked like before this.

 

[Tom]

"U.S. consumption of natural gas is 22 trillion cubic feet per year." that's what's doing it, right? Where does that come from now? Maybe they can come up with a couple trillion cubic feet a month more, is that an alternative?

We use up a lot of gas now, what do we stop using to cut down? Eat carrots and lettuce and stuff we don't have to cook on a gas stove, is that an alternative?

You do need before and after pictures, you need to know what good those water pond things are. Can you duck hunt on them?

 

[Nemont]

Much of the water is contaminated with sulphur and other minerals which make it unusable for waterfowl or any other animal, wild or domestic. Many of the ponds have to fenced to keep the deer and antelope out of them.

CMB production is much more destructive than regular natural gas production. The roads and other infrastructure required to produce gas is kind of overwhelming.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Let's hear from the anti-wildlife anti-environmentalist crowd here in SI. Can any of them tell us why we should be happy about CBM production?

"You do need before and after pictures, you need to know what good those water pond things are. Can you duck hunt on them?"

Why do we need before and after pictures? Does anyone think those areas looked worse before the CBM development started?

 

[Tom]

What part is CBM and what part is not? The green stuff looks good, is it CBM too? Before and after would show that difference.

We can't tell from a picture, what is due to CBM, how much of it is CBM, etc. Americans need to consume CBM, that's the part to be happy about, you get that. It probably generates a lot more income for the area than a $50 elk tag, that's what I'm thinking. No one is happy you have to make a new road and destroy some pretty plants, but lots of people probably use the CBM if we consume 22,000,000,000 cu ft/year in this country. Many benefit, few are hurt, isn't that why they are doing it. Why not make them fix the water that's bad? At least put the good water that comes up, somewhere to be used. They use a lot of dirty water for golf courses, I've heard, can this water be used that way, then it would improve the surrounding habitat? Maybe it already does, we can't tell from the pictures and information given so far, can we?

Here's a web page with the dollars paid per 1,000 cu ft. in Wy., about $2.
http://www.equalitystate.org/ESPC%20Website%20Generic%20Pages/Testimones/t3mar2000_prod.html

Divide the 22,000,000,000 cu ft by 1000 and multiply by $2 and its 44 million per year. Does the displaced hunting generate 44 million per year for the people? That's the problem, isn't it, something like that?

Do they estimate the impact, dollar wise on the area?

I can't imagine a well every 40-80 acres. Its a city of wells. That is very hard to do well.

[ 06-20-2004, 10:23: Message edited by: Tom ]

 

[BuzzH]

Tom,

Under existing law, the water pumped out of the ground for CBM development doesnt have to be treated at all. The reason is because the alkaline and sulfur that Nemont talked about is not considered a pollutant. The DEQ simply rubber stamps any permits that are applied for. Most of the permits allow the water to be pumped right into the nearest draw, river, or gully.

A good friend of mine has done some research, inventory work, and further consulting on the effects of CBM discharge water on in-stream water quality, macroinvertabrates, and fish. The results he's getting strongly suggest that fish and macroinvertabrate populations are taking a severe hit.

This problem, like many others, will not be addressed until its too late. It would be asking too much for industry to see that discharging contaminated water into watersheds degrades things, they need to "see" proof. In the meantime, while the CBM industry is awaiting the results of the obvious studies....its simply drill as many as you can, as fast as you can, before the proof hits the streets. Who cares what the effects are. Shortsigtedness at its absolute pinnacle.

 

[Tom]

Well, I hope your friend is able to get the results forward asap. Maybe all the ranchers can sue the company. It took lots of years and lots of research to get the cigarette companies, but people still even want to smoke.

If Nemont knows the water is unusuable, why is it not a pollutant, makes no sense?

Buzz's friend and Nemont have the data to go forward. They're both probably right up there where its happening to. Go tell the rubber stampers what you've got, ask them what to do to stop it.

The Sierra Club down here stopped the building of a highway to protect black capped vireos. They build their nest real low in bushes. I'm thinking the first raccoon or skunk that comes along, eats him a nest full of black capped vireos. I visited a Nature Conservancy site where they are working their butts off to make black capped vireo habitat on 10,000 acres, yet they won't kill a skunk or a raccoon on the property. It was kind of ironic. It reminds me of the story where they spent $5,000-$10,000 to save this seal and when they released it, they watched a whale eat it.

You guys sound like you have the data for the Sierra Club or Nature Conservancy or somebody to do a lawsuit to stop the CBM projects. You know CBM is destructive, do you? Where's your souce Nemont? Is that guy making a report Buzz? Is the Sierra Club active in Wyoming and Montana? A well every 40-80 acres is a massive problem to deal with.

Get with these people, they are trying to fix it.
http://wyoming.sierraclub.org/alerts/a111601.html

 

[BuzzH]

Tom said, "If Nemont knows the water is unusuable, why is it not a pollutant, makes no sense?"

You are right, it doesnt make sense, but water laws are pretty clear what constitutes a pollutant and what doesnt. Alkali, sulfur, and even excessive sedimentation are not considered pollutants.

If all those were considered pollutants and discharging them was a violation of the Clean Water Act, the western landscape would look much different than it does today and is going to look like in the near future.

Getting the sierra club involved, NC, ranchers, etc. isnt going to make a dent, more than likely. When the directive comes from the top, you're sunk.

Yes, my buddy is making a report of his study in the Powder River Basin, but like I said, industry is severly accelerating the permitting process, with a full blessing from the Whitehouse...

Game over.

 

[Tom]

I think its the kind of game that keeps going as long as there are players.

It sounds like you're saying the environmental people have messed up federal, state, and local definitions of polluted water? I don't get it.

I do remember being surprised when I drove through Montana and the sign at the highway rest stop said the water was not safe to drink.

We have local laws here that you can't dump over the aquafir (our main underground water source), there are limitations on the business's allowed to be built over it, etc. Water is a major issue down here. To many people using it, is the main problem to deal with, but we stop lawn watering, pool filling, and more excessive uses, when it gets to low levels. People pay major fines, if the violate its proper use.

Here's a slide show showing the potential benefits of cleaning the water from oil and gas operations. In the Wyoming example in the slide show, the water would be worth more than the oil.
It seems like the company and the community would benefit from that water.
Texas A&M has a mobile unit doing it, it looks like, and there are other operations in another slide.
http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/Desalination/Desal/proceedings/Burnett.pdf

That link claims the Casper Creek field in Wyoming made on average

$2000/day on oil and

that they could make

$3500/day more on water, if treated.

How much would they have made from hunter's per day there, if there was no oil? They can spend some profits on plants/habitat for elk/deer/antelope, if they want too also.

The game's not over, your move.

[ 06-20-2004, 15:04: Message edited by: Tom ]

 

[pawclaws]

Here in Ohio we import Texas gas. There is a pumping/processing plant not 3 miles from my place.

 

[BuzzH]

Tom,

Theres a few little things you're forgetting about.

For starters, I doubt anyone is going to make $3500/day on water. The main reason is the cost of "treating" it. The other reason is the cost to transport that treated water where its needed and where a market exists. Most of these wells are out in the middle of B.F.E. or in this case B.F.Wyoming.

If you want to start playing the dollar game, you'll lose big-time.

Oil and CBM is a non-sustainable, non-renewable resource that makes money for a relatively short time. Quality wildlife and its habitat are very renewable resources. I'd say a quality buck antelope would fetch $1500 buck Mule deer would easily fetch $3500 each. Quality elk $5000. You can produce them forever if the land is intact and you arent degrading anything to do it. Thats just what an outfitter would charge for the right to hunt, thats not taking into account hunting equipment, food items, hotels, and all the other crap hunters spend money on.

If you want to figure what is the best long-term investment for any state in the West, its really a no-brainer.

Then if we figure in correcting the impacts of CBM/oil development, the U.S. taxpayer could easily run into a deficit situation, and in a hurry.

And as far as the the environmentalists, last I checked they werent the ones writing state and federal water quality laws.

Also, thinking any oil company is going to willingly spend money on plants or wildlife habitat, without being mandated or forced to, is about the biggest pipe dream I've heard for a long, long, long time. They maximize profits.

The game is over, and there isnt anything any group is going to do to slow this wagon down until theres a change in the administration.

Wyomings Governor is currently trying to slow down CBM development and he's finding out who his boss is.

 

[Bambistew]

Good post... When I was working in the PBR this CBM was just starting up! It scared the hell out of me when they said how many wells they planed on drilling... The developement of the fields is just too big to imagine. Its like the Mother Load for the oil companies... they can get a permitt in about 4 months, they only wells are shallow so no big platforms are required, a basic water well drill will work, the pump instalation is cheap... It seemed like they could put a new well in opperation in about two weeks if the pipe infrastructure was there. Back in 99 they were putting pipe for the main line in the ground as fast as they could get it off the train...

Here is a link to one of the fine "stewards" of the PRB

http://www.marathon.com/content/released/HM8860_PRB_FactSht_final.pdf

You can see just how big the PRB is... that is a F'n huge area, and if they get their way, it will be swiss cheesed with wells.

Could you imagine if the oil companies put as much reserch in money into finding new fuel alternatives??? Speaking of which have any of you heard of the new clean power plants that they're constructing in CA and I think AZ? Powered by sunlight and parabolic lenses. Kind of like a magnifying glass that heats up oil to vapor and that vapor in turn runs a turbin to generate elec... Cost approximately 4-5mill per megawatt... as apposed to our other "clean" source nuclear... at about 1billion per megawatt...

 

[ELKCHSR]

This is so much an easy fix....
You need to just quit using the resource. Then there would be no market for it and the areas would be left untouched. Kinda like some of the vast expanses of Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Kalifornia.....
Some of these areas have no usable resources for us to use, so they get left alone.
Fix the energy need for the populas, then the problem will automatically fix itself.
Use even a byproduct of any of these resources and you are just as guilty of environmental damage as those that are harvesting it.

 

[BuzzH]

Elkchsr,

Great post, how long did it take for you to come up with it???

 

[Nemont]

This is so much an easy fix ....
You need to just quit using the resource. Then there would be no market for it and the areas would be left untouched. Kinda like some of the vast expanses of Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Kalifornia.....

Elkchsr,
It is not any easy fix. The demand for gas continues to be strong and the alternate energy sources are years away. The cost of converting current power plants, buildings heated with gas, factories using gas to power them etc, etc to a different source of energy is prohibative. Natural gas is a cleaner alternative to coal.

The challenge with CBM is that it puts surface and groundwater at risk of being contaminated, the roads and pipline infrastructure break up habitat and when the gas is exhausted the taxpayers will be left with public lands that will take years and many $$$$ to recover.

I read somewhere that the CBM production on the WYO. side of the Powder River basin will last approximately 20 years. Seems like a poor trade off for twenty years of the gas.

Perhaps conservation and alternate source of energy would be a better long term solution.

The only thing I disagree with Buzz about is that a change in the administration will reduce the CBM drilling.


Nemont

[ 06-21-2004, 11:39: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[Tom]

I don't see why you can't use the water, cleaned up to make more of the renewable resource and have both. Doesn't Texas have both, we've got 4 million deer and lots of oil and gas.

I was off on the 22 trillion, its got 3 more zeroes.

22,000,000,000,000 per year consumed in the US.

So, the 44 is $44 billion/year not million.

One link said the Wy./Mont. production is 5% of that now and can go to 12%, that's 7% more. 7% of 44 billion is

$3,008,000,000 per year. That's 601,600 of those $5000 elk/year. Or its 60,160,000 of those $50 local tag elk / year.
There's only a million elk in the whole country, so the elk doesn't match it. Plus, the water from the wells can create improved elk habitat, if you do it right, it would seem.

Other's say the water is worth that much, not me, its in the link with the talk on cleaning the water from oil/gas wells for use.
I can see the communities putting that to good use though. It would grow lots of elk/mule deer habitat.

You might end up with more of both if you get laws on the books to make others do it or work on processing the water like that link says to do and make it happen in your own community. Apparently people truck the water that is not processed to other wells and dump it back down in the ground a lot. What you guys are saying is they just dump it out up there, it sounds like. Fix that.

You got to change the laws, work on the water, or stop people from using gas quick. We have lots of wildlife down here and produce a lot of gas and oil, so its possible, it seems like. We have one $25,000 / day well in a state park. I've heard of it, but not seen it. I should go find it and take a picture, its in a state park.

[ 06-21-2004, 11:04: Message edited by: Tom ]

 

[Bambistew]

Hey Oak, can I steal a couple of those pictures for another forum?