The Gaslighting of the American Sportsman

mfb99

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
107
The Trump administration is still pushing hard for the Pebble Mining Project in Alaska. Everyday we face an unprecedented assault on OUR public lands. One of the most egregious efforts is the gaslighting of American sportsman by Trump, his cabinet members and even his son. Using the proven techniques of modern day grifters, they purport to be lovers of nature – hunting, fishing, see the pretty flowers!

The truth is they are exploiters and opportunists who believe that our natural resources are to be extracted and consumed as fast and as furiously as possible. They are about earnings per share, stock buy-backs and divides to shareholders. Their number one goal is to put money in their pocket, everyone else be dammed. In the case of the Pebble Mine project, putting money in the pocket of a CANADIAN mining company.

Don’t stand for this.

Real sportsmen and sportswomen need to fight back and don’t give an inch. Above all, don’t carry water for this ilk. Need I remind you of Ryan Zinke the sportsman poser who now works for a Gold Mining investment company.

Call your congressional leaders, get involved with public comments on this project.

And, VOTE PUBLIC LANDS

Now to an article from the NYT about the Pebble Mining Project:

Article from the NYT:

‘The Wrong Mine for the Wrong Place’


A proposed Alaskan mine threatens the planet’s largest spawning ground for sockeye salmon and lays bare Trump's gaslighting of American sportsmen.

By Paul Greenberg, Mark Kurlansky, Carl Safina and John Waldman

The writers are anglers and authors who have fished extensively throughout Alaska.

May 6, 2019



Every creature deserves a chance to spawn.


Consider the scene above, (I did not attach picture) captured on Instagram. The fish is a sockeye salmon. It is on its way to its breeding grounds in Alaska’s wild interior. It has been intercepted — for a few minutes — by an angler who has come to America’s 49th state to partake in the fantastically abundant spectacle of tens of millions of salmon surging upstream to make a next generation. The angler has brought his own offspring to marvel alongside him. But all this joyful happiness, this celebration of abundant life-continuing-life, is in imminent danger of ruination.


The angler holding the fish is Donald Trump Jr. The child is Donald Trump III, or D3 as his father likes to tag him on Instagram. Thanks to D1, the pater familias of the happy fishing duo pictured above, this immensely valuable fish faces a fast-approaching savaging. The means of that savaging is the proposed open-pit copper and gold Pebble Mine that would be dug at the headwaters of the sockeye salmon’s largest remaining spawning ground.


The project was effectively dead at the end of the Obama administration. But thanks to a reversal engineered by Scott Pruitt, the disgraced former administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, the permitting process is rushing forward on a scaled-back proposal that would still be disastrous. This despite high profile Republican voices of opposition. Even Ted Stevens, the longtime and often industry-friendly Republican senator from Alaska who died in a 2010 plane crash en route to a fishing lodge, said of the Pebble Mine, “I am not opposed to mining, but it is the wrong mine for the wrong place."


The 40,000-square-mile Bristol Bay watershed that would be affected by the Pebble Mine is home to a fishery that, in recent years, has supported some 14,000 jobs and generated some $1.5 billion annually in sales value. All that stands between this thriving fishery and its despoiling is a go-ahead from the gung-ho Trump administration and the pro-development state government.


First, though, the public, including outdoor sportsmen, has a chance to weigh in on this deeply anti-wilderness plan in a comment period that ends June 29. It would be beyond the scope of this short essay to detail all the ins and outs of the Pebble project. (All four of we fisherman-authors have followed this story closely for over a decade.) Suffice it to say that Pebble would be an out-of-place industrial juggernaut, financed by a Canadian mining company, to dig an enormous gold and copper mine (1.3 miles long by 1 mile wide and dug to a depth of 1,970 feet), replete with vast collecting ponds of sulfurous liquid waste in a roadless, earthquake-prone sweep of forest and tundra in Southwest Alaska.


Five years ago, Gina McCarthy, the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, warned after three years of study that the Pebble Mine “would likely have significant and irreversible negative impacts on the Bristol Bay watershed and its abundant salmon fisheries.” But in 2017, the Trump administration reversed course and opened the way for the mine now under consideration. This move has been opposed by Democrats and Republicans alike. Ms. McCarthy’s predecessors from the Nixon, Reagan and two Bush administrations denounced the administration’s actions on Pebble in a recent full-page ad in The Washington Post, saying: “We oppose the Trump administration’s efforts to sweep nearly a decade of science and Clean Water Act review under the rug.”


The network of roads and industrial infrastructure needed to haul out the millions of tons of Pebble Mine gold and copper-laced rock would be a stake driven into the heart of Alaska’s wilderness, opening miles of untrammeled territory to exploitation. The proposed mine would store toxic mine wastes behind earthen dams. This technique has failed in the past and is even more risky for the streams and creeks upstream from Bristol Bay. The substrate surrounding the mine site is so sulfurous that the administrators of the pre-Trump Environmental Protection Agency noted in an assessment of the project that if the site were developed as the Pebble Partnership outlined it, on-site remediation would be required “in perpetuity.” In other words instead of pristine salmon runs, we’d have toxic-waste management, forever.


More than all that — if more is needed — the photograph above lays bare the larger gaslighting of American sportsmen and sportswomen under President Trump. In the past two years, the real estate developer turned president has arguably done more to harm the future of hunting and fishing grounds in this country than any president in history. The rescinding of the Obama-era rule on disposal of coal tailings poses imminent risk to trout streams throughout West Virginia and other trout-rich states. The gambit to open offshore oil drilling along the East Coast and the seismic testing that would accompany such a boondoggle has the potential to damage fisheries from redfish off the Carolinas to bluefish off New England. The administration’s potential gutting of the so-called Waters of the U.S. regulations would remove federal protection for half of many states’ wetlands, which are vital for the propagation of waterfowl so many American hunters love to pursue.


The mine being rushed by the Trump administration has such glaring disregard for the interests of hunters and fishers and nature lovers who back the president, that even the interests of such ardent Trump supporters as his own son and grandson are cast aside in this rush to industrialize one of the planet’s last great wild places. Also cast aside are values the angler, his son, and most American outdoor enthusiasts presumably share. Indeed it seems almost fraudulent that the present administration should brand itself with the same party affiliation as the most conserving of American conservatives, Theodore Roosevelt.


Pristine salmon runs are also mines of sorts. But they are the kind of mines that provide self-renewing free sources of food, employment and recreation. As Donald Trump Jr. writes in the post that accompanies the photo above, “If you haven’t read about the journey these amazing fish make and the transformations they make in their life, you should because it’s unbelievable.”


We agree. Furthermore we hope that Donald Jr. might undergo his own transformation into, dare we say it, a conservationist. If he can’t make the point abundantly clear to his father that Alaskan salmon are worth saving, maybe it’s time for him to scrub the Bristol Bay trophy shots from his social media. Pebble Mine with its slipshod dams and shortsighted planning is finite in the wealth it will bring. Hardly any of it will flow into the creels of anglers. When the dams finally break, it will be American sportsmen like Donald Trump Jr. who will taste the bitterness of all the muck that washes downstream.


Paul Greenberg is the author, most recently, of “The Omega Principle: Seafood and the Quest for a Long Life and a Healthier Planet.” Mark Kurlansky is the author of the forthcoming “Salmon and the Earth.” Carl Safina is a MacArthur Fellow and the author, most recently, of “Beyond Words: What Animals Think and Feel.” John Waldman is a professor of biology at Queens College and the author of “Running Silver: Restoring Atlantic Rivers and Their Great Fish Migrations.”


Cheers,

Mark

Ye Shall Be Free To Roam….

 

MTGomer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
2,269
Location
MT —> AZ
Here’s my thought:
The opponents of a copper mine in a historic mining district in Arizona use the same scare tactics and verbiage as the opponents of Pebble.

If rid Arizona, on private land in a historic mining district, under modern mining laws isn’t the place to get copper, which we need and need a lot of, where is?

I think overall the opponents of the mining industry have watered down their talking points. When good projects like Black Butte in Montana or Resolution or Rosemont in Arizona are opposed with the same fervor, Sky is falling, anti-science propaganda as Pebble and BWCA, I realize it’s not really about the environment to these people.

I don’t know if I think Pebble should be permitted. I have never taken the time to look into it, and as someone that’s not an Alaskan, I don’t feel entitled to an opinion on it anyway and won’t look into it.

But the ecomaniacs gain no ground with me when the same language they use on good projects that should be supported are used on ones in sensitive areas like Bristol Bay.

The lovers of copper bullets, EV Cars and Solar panels better get this shit figured out because they need billions of pounds of copper.
 

Northwoods Labs

Active member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
589
Location
Danbury, Wisconsin
Here’s my thought:
The opponents of a copper mine in a historic mining district in Arizona use the same scare tactics and verbiage as the opponents of Pebble.

If rid Arizona, on private land in a historic mining district, under modern mining laws isn’t the place to get copper, which we need and need a lot of, where is?

I think overall the opponents of the mining industry have watered down their talking points. When good projects like Black Butte in Montana or Resolution or Rosemont in Arizona are opposed with the same fervor, Sky is falling, anti-science propaganda as Pebble and BWCA, I realize it’s not really about the environment to these people.

I don’t know if I think Pebble should be permitted. I have never taken the time to look into it, and as someone that’s not an Alaskan, I don’t feel entitled to an opinion on it anyway and won’t look into it.

But the ecomaniacs gain no ground with me when the same language they use on good projects that should be supported are used on ones in sensitive areas like Bristol Bay.

The lovers of copper bullets, EV Cars and Solar panels better get this shit figured out because they need billions of pounds of copper.

If you are a sportsman and lover of wilderness and you support a mine at the headwaters of the Boundary Waters Wilderness, then I guess I am at a loss of what to even say to you
 

mdhunter61

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
285
Pebble Mine issue has been kicking around for about 15 years, don't put this on the current administration.
 

Gerald Martin

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
3,888
If you are a sportsman and lover of wilderness and you support a mine at the headwaters of the Boundary Waters Wilderness, then I guess I am at a loss of what to even say to you
Pretty sure he's saying he's not a proponent of the mines at Pebble and BWCA, but supports Black Butte, Resolution and Rosemont.
 

MTGomer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
2,269
Location
MT —> AZ
If you are a sportsman and lover of wilderness and you support a mine at the headwaters of the Boundary Waters Wilderness, then I guess I am at a loss of what to even say to you

I didn’t say I support it. I said you lose my interest when the same lines used to oppose projects in highly sensitive, wet ecosystems like the BWCA is used on what should be a non controversial project in an extremely arid climate within a non virgin landscape that’s been heavily impacted by mining for 120 years.

It’s always the same Sky is falling, impending doom bullshit and zero facts. Zero hydrogeological reports. Zero input from educated, experienced professionals. Or if such exists it’s drowned out by the same sound bites used everywhere. But you can stop this catastrophe. Just go to our page and donate!

We are told that the clock is ticking. We only have 11.8 years before we die from global warming if we don’t switch to 100% renewables yesterday.

Grid scale lithium ion battery storage is in its infancy. Between it, solar panels and the continued electrification of vehicles, which is just getting started, we need a lot of metals in the next few decades.
Also, The US government and American Citizens are the #1 and 2 consumers of lead bullets in the world. A switch to all copper adds more demand. It has to come from somewhere.
 
Last edited:

rtraverdavis

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2016
Messages
987
Location
OREGON
Grid scale lithium ion battery storage is in its infancy. Between it, solar panels and the continued electrification of vehicles, which is just getting started, we need a lot of metals in the next few decades.
Also, The US government and American Citizens are the #1 and 2 consumers of lead bullets in the world. A switch to all copper adds more demand. It has to come from somewhere.
Gomer, your logical and straightforward way of breaking down issues which I used to approach with an uncritical cultural bias has changed the way I think about a number of issues. Quite a few other folks on HT have done that as well. It’s one of the main reasons I like this site.
 

MTGomer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
2,269
Location
MT —> AZ
Gomer, your logical and straightforward way of breaking down issues which I used to approach with an uncritical cultural bias has changed the way I think about a number of issues. Quite a few other folks on HT have done that as well. It’s one of the main reasons I like this site.

Thank you. You may want to fact check me on that last part. I have heard that said a few times about our ammo consumption but I’m not sure after looking into it that it’s true.
Regardless, we use a LOT of ammo.
 

BearFoot

Active member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
294
Location
Alaska
The article takes the anti side of the debate, while others are working through, the multi years long process seeking approval. If allowed to proceed or not, will depend on the plans, science and studies. Plenty of public input also. A new green deal is gonna need a lot of copper and Pebble has it.
 

Eric Albus

Member
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
559
gomer, they use the same tired old saw on everything they oppose, little fact lots of emotion. Why do any of them care what gets mined, or drilled, after all we only have 11.7 years left and its all over.... there is no time to ruin it for another generation we're done!! What a bunch of bung-hooey. Go from "global warming" to "climate change"....what will be next, "summer complaint"?
 

hossblur

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
64
I'm an hr from kennecot in UT. Its a huge hole, ugly as hell. If they were petitioning to start today I'd be not wild about it. However. I get my BHA alerts via a computer, plugged into a wall. Meaning copper everywhere. If your going to oppose it sure looks better if you have an alternative, not just a complaint.
 

MTTW

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
565
Location
Montana
Bullshit.

The pebble mine is not about copper, it is about money. Opposition to it is about keeping an unspoiled ecosystem unspoiled and intact.

If some foreign company was to come in and propose large scale mining on the edge of Yellowstone Park, or on the banks of the Yellowstone river, I would oppose it. If they proposed heavy logging with associated roads in a local wilderness study area I would oppose it. Logging is not about making boards to build houses, it is about making a profit. Nothing wrong with making a profit, but if you are going to call bs on the same old lines used to oppose, than the same bs call can be made on the same old lines used to promote.

I would not owe someone an alternative area, that would be up to them.

I have seen the land where Pebble Mine will be located. I have fished and hunted and lived in the Bristol Bay area. In my opinion Pebble Mine is one of the worst ideas that I have ever heard. Of course I have a bad habit of giving a shit about the land.

Full disclosure, I have commercial salmon fished in Bristol Bay for many years. I am sure that is an instant disqualifier to many, but I seriously doubt I will be there when the dams fail. I just hate to see the decision made by a bunch of people who will never see the area, on the premise of.. Well we have to get copper from somewhere.
 

BearFoot

Active member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
294
Location
Alaska
Bullshit.
The pebble mine is not about copper, it is about money.
Logging is not about making boards to build houses, it is about making a profit.
Full disclosure, I have commercial salmon fished in Bristol Bay for many years.
Bristol Bay commercial fishing, is it about the money? Is it about making a profit?

I believe these industries can co-exist, but folks much smarter than me, shall make the final call.
 

MTTW

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
565
Location
Montana
Bristol Bay commercial fishing, is it about the money? Is it about making a profit?

I believe these industries can co-exist, but folks much smarter than me, shall make the final call.

Yes it is about money. I would never argue that I fish in order to provide people with fish. You take the profit out and it is done on a commercial level.

I suspect they can coexist for a while. I am very worried about long term. I am certain that the area will be heavily affected by the development and the influx of people it would bring.
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,994
Location
Wenatchee
While I recognize the practicality of Gomer's point of view that we require metals as a society, I also have zero faith in the mining industry. And thus am very apprehensive about additional mining.
-There's over 100 hard rock mines on the EPA superfund NPL.
-There's an estimated 500k abandoned mines in the US.
-The BLM alone is aware of 22k abandoned mines and estimated it will cost 500 mil just to assess those to determine physical site safety concerns let alone environmental issues.
-Mount Polley proved that even a "new age" mine without major violations can still catastrophically fail.
-Half of the politicians are more concerned with allowing more mining than cleaning up the legacy of what's been done.
 

MTGomer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
2,269
Location
MT —> AZ
While I recognize the practicality of Gomer's point of view that we require metals as a society, I also have zero faith in the mining industry. And thus am very apprehensive about additional mining.
-There's over 100 hard rock mines on the EPA superfund NPL.
-There's an estimated 500k abandoned mines in the US.
-The BLM alone is aware of 22k abandoned mines and estimated it will cost 500 mil just to assess those to determine physical site safety concerns let alone environmental issues.
-Mount Polley proved that even a "new age" mine without major violations can still catastrophically fail.
-Half of the politicians are more concerned with allowing more mining than cleaning up the legacy of what's been done.
Even considering many of those ‘mines’ are just 4’ holes in the ground in the desert, It’s not a good past whatsoever. Nobody disputes that.
Hunting has the same past. It’s just that dead passenger pigeons and bison are organic.

I’m all for making the mining industry better. I worked at the most environmentally responsible hard rock mine in the world. I’ve seen how it can be done.

I’m not for demanding renewable energy standards dependent on mining for copper while pushing to close copper mines like Raul Grijalva, my fat, drunk, anti hunting rep actively does.


And besides... without mining, Nevada would just be a barren shithole that grapebanana lives in 😎

( i was joking about the last part)
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,994
Location
Wenatchee
Gomer, what's your take on mining waste that requires indefinite treatment/containment? Is that realistic?
 
Top