Yep.
Some do spiral to pointless, undoubtedly. But I don't view the point of discussion to change minds. It is to share perspectives, that later upon reflection or further experience may help shape a reader's viewpoint a bit. Plus, remember, for every guy/gal engaged in the debate there are probably 10x-15x passive readers - they too may gain something from the exchange even if the active posters remain entrenched.
This is a really good example of what I was referencing. The mere act of carrying a firearm where it is legal to do so does not open up reasonable suspicion for an officer to detain and ID someone. Too often officers get locked into a "I'm the 5-0 and you'll do what I say", even though they have no legal authority to do so, or they are unsure of where their legal authority starts and where it ends. Then, we get to witness pissing matches and sometimes wrongful arrests, and sometimes a citizen who gambled on the wrong tidbit of internet knowledge.
He will be more than welcome in SD!!!!
I do not expect perfection - it is unattainable. But I do expect us to be able to chip away at some entrenched problems. Minneapolis has had a string of mayors and police chiefs who have promised reform. Essentially zero progress has been made because in each case the police union blocked any meaningful change. So, how about we try a round or two of reform without a union in the way. Would that lead to perfection - hell no. Might we make some progress - hell yes. Might it cause new problems we would have to respond to - likely. Humans are imperfect, human institutions are imperfect - but I do not accept that this fundamental truth means we stop trying to improve. Maybe not in your instance, but in general I feel that "always been the case" logic is just a weak excuse to do nothing. We have developed a police system that works fairly well for Caucasians and that really works well for the rich - it is worth some additional effort to see if we can make it work better for the poor and people of color.
Haha you have a point. Most bonus point threads derail and definitely that one derailed.
Yeah but it's a guarantee with most of these threads. Some even people even get banned. And if they aren't political, they turn that way. Every time. mtmuley
All in all, HTers do better than the internet norm by a lot, but no doubt some lose their way.
He was just back there for the 4th. Went to a nice little party. Fished the stream running through his property, caught a few browns. Fished his way back to CA with his wife and son. He can probably tell you down to the exact second when his retirement will be.
Regardless of how much I know I'm within my right, if it comes to wrestling with a LEO, I'll submit to the officer and live to fight another day in the proper channels. It's seems all to often these days it's fight first, then cry the victimhood.
True, but I can also see it from the standpoint of someone not wanting to submit too unlawful detention/orders. Me, I'd follow commands and then build up a nice retirement fund through civil court.
The best argument I've read/heard is that for many non-white Americans that submission is effectively a guilty plea.
Disagree with that statement. I cannot see it from the standpoint of someone not wanting to submit to what they believe is an unlawful detention or order.
I agree that in a well-run system deference to a sworn officer is the right and only answer. And even in a poorly run system I personally will choose to comply blindly and live to fight another day, but at some point the number of petty crime and non-crime reasons for police to take this approach has to be addressed. An active burglary or hot on the heels of a rape or shooting are one thing, but I would guess the majority of non-arrest detentions and searches involve issues like unpaid fines, vagrancy, loitering, petty theft, being loud, moving violations or being in a neighborhood where you are not recognized, none of which are worth the escalation to prone on the ground pat-down for the person or the officer. And the only reason it is allowed in the current manner now is because of who the primary targets of these actions are. I guarantee you that if a bunch of suburban white business owners and housewives in my town got the prone pat-down this year the training and policies of that suburban police force would changed on a dime. But because it rarely happens to the folks with real power to make the changes it carries on.
That’s a fact. This and Rokslide are the only social media accounts I have left and I haven’t logged in on Rokslide in weeks.
