NM Federal Land Transfer!

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Sandia Pueblo Seeks To Add 10K Acres of National Forest Land To Its Reservation on West Side of Sandias; NM Gov. LuJan Grisham and Other Officials Approve — New Mexico Wildlife Federation

By Ben Neary NMWF Sandia Pueblo is pushing to add nearly 10,000 acres of federal land that’s currently managed by the U.S. Forest Service on the west side of the Sandia Mountains to its reservation – a move that would give the pueblo control over the future of public hunting, birding and other act

www.nmwildlife.org

The horror of Federal land transfer proposals is in New Mexico. This proposal is not to the State, rather to one Pueblo. Despite the standing 23 year-old Congressional legislation, Sandia Pueblo has curried favor with the outgoing Governor. God willing this will stop when this State administration departs. It’s being sold as “better land management” due to the “vandalism” that’s come from reduced Federal budgeting. The trails mentioned in this article are treasured by myself and thousands of other Burqueans. I was on the Piedra Lisa at sunrise with my young son just this past week! There is no vandalism like excessive litter or graffiti and people making trail is a constant problem everywhere. The law enforcement presence of Pueblo cops will not put boots in the woods or change from what they do best: radar on Tramway road. Mendacious at its core and just as unbelievable as fixing the housing crisis.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Here’s sunrise today on the proposed transfer block.

 

[Wyoming270]

I could see both sides of this for sure. On one hand this could recuce land that hunting licenses are sold on to the public. Maybe a use easement would be appropriate here to prevent this. On the other hand, federal land has a way of really getting trashed in a bad way. Low bide for mining, invasive bovine grazing. If they are looking for revenue or to not manage land, who knows what they might stoop too. Could be solar pannels or windmills next.

On the other hand, i would suspect if it is absorbed by the reservation that will be the end of public hunting at some point. Now this is not to say thats a bad thing. The Eastern Shoshone people and the Northern Arapahoe people agreed to make a 187,000 acre section of roadless high country 26 years before the us government made the first wilderness area. I know people who hunt that annually and the animals they send me pictures of make the ones on the tv shows look small. they even have a steady population of wolverines, which were thought to be extinct in Wyoming.

So that brings up the point of less people hunting prime animal habitat helps preserve quality genetics, and rare species. Even if we cant hunt that exact spot it could still help the populations on neighboring public lands.

 

[wyflyguy]

My thoughts on this are aligned with OP's here. It seems like a land-grab dressed up to be more palatable to the average citizen. Kind of like a caramel covered onion posing as a candied apple...
They talk a good line about how hunting and recreation access will be preserved for the general public, but there's no way that access continues as it is right now. And there is no way to guarantee that into the future. Once they get control of the land, they get to make the decisions. And if "vandalism" is a problem now I believe it will both continue and be used as a reason to eventually exclude the public all together in the name of preserving the land.
I just fail to see many upsides to this deal at all.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Here is the extant legislation. Heritage and cultural claims have remained intact. This 2003 Act did furthermore make provisions for:

(Sec. 6) Limits the Pueblo's rights
and interest in the Area to exclude: (1) any right to sell, grant, lease, convey, encumber or exchange lands in the Area; (2) exemption from applicable Federal wildlife protection laws; (3) the right to conveyance or exchange of land interests; and (4) the right to exclude persons or governmental entities.

So here’s some local background to better explain why Sandia Pueblo’s claim of continuing hunting activities is also bullshit as well as other potential nefarious intents-
There is no real hunting at this time. It’s easier to hunt in Long Island County than it is here in Bernalillo/Sandoval counties. Last I saw on the game proclamation, this hunt area has eight (8!) lottery deer permits and it’s only archery. Discharge of firearms is prohibited by ordinance in both Counties. So it’s the oddball coyote/rabbit archer or falconer who hunts in this area. Elk were eradicated in these parts hundred or so years back. There is the occasional sighting now, but no herds.
There is a real shitroad, Placitas Road, that runs up from Placitas (Sandoval) into Cedar Crest (Bernalillo). If the Pueblo were to develop this land, they could add in a conveyance (currently prohibited by legislation) that would be a major obstacle solution to thousands of drivers. People are currently forced to find an indirect way to I-25 or NM-14 because of the shitroad being the only option through the mountains.
The Sandia Pueblo is also currently almost 23,000 acres. The proposal would add almost half of that again. Now with the Pueblo doing just fine so far, what ever could they do with this excess property? Hint* the luxury of living just outside Santa Fe or Albuquerque has recently priced out a lot of potential homeowners.

 

[Wyoming270]

My thoughts on this are aligned with OP's here. It seems like a land-grab dressed up to be more palatable to the average citizen. Kind of like a caramel covered onion posing as a candied apple...
They talk a good line about how hunting and recreation access will be preserved for the general public, but there's no way that access continues as it is right now. And there is no way to guarantee that into the future. Once they get control of the land, they get to make the decisions. And if "vandalism" is a problem now I believe it will both continue and be used as a reason to eventually exclude the public all together in the name of preserving the land.
I just fail to see many upsides to this deal at all.

Here in Wyoming the forest service has closed half of our roads in some areas of national forest, telling us that we damage the eco system by driving on 60 year old roads. One section of national forest closes the end of every winter and does not reopen until summer. Their excuse is that we cause habitat damage if we cane during the spring. Forest service passed all of this internally in 2017 without listening to public input.

Meanwhile a couple hours away the wind river reseveration has a huge wilderness area that predates usfs wilderness area designation by 26 years. Not only did these people maintain a wilderness area for all this time, they have elk genetics seen no where else, a population of wolverines, and lots of grizzly bears. The quality of their animals beats the national elk refuge by far. They also restocked bison on their lands. The usfs has yet to reintroduce bison in any capacity that will ever be huntable. The only mention of the usfs every stocking bison I can find online is a few of them they put over some extremely contaminated ground where a former ordinance plant was decomissioned, in a state that did not allow any rifle hunting at the time they stocked them.

 

[Chingon]

Some tribes make a living off setting up roadblocks on State-maintained roads through a sliver of their land and confiscating rifles/issuing fines for any hunter that doesn't know they're supposed to physically remove a magazine from a rifle before transiting the 20 yd stretch. Sad sight to see little kids have their hunt ended when their grandpa didn't realize they crossed over the wrong 20 feet of dirt on a NM-state maintained road. I avoid tribal land like the plague when hunting.

 

[INMT]

Here in Wyoming the forest service has closed half of our roads in some areas of national forest, telling us that we damage the eco system by driving on 60 year old roads. One section of national forest closes the end of every winter and does not reopen until summer. Their excuse is that we cause habitat damage if we cane during the spring. Forest service passed all of this internally in 2017 without listening to public input.

Meanwhile a couple hours away the wind river reseveration has a huge wilderness area that predates usfs wilderness area designation by 26 years. Not only did these people maintain a wilderness area for all this time, they have elk genetics seen no where else, a population of wolverines, and lots of grizzly bears. The quality of their animals beats the national elk refuge by far. They also restocked bison on their lands. The usfs has yet to reintroduce bison in any capacity that will ever be huntable. The only mention of the usfs every stocking bison I can find online is a few of them they put over some extremely contaminated ground where a former ordinance plant was decomissioned, in a state that did not allow any rifle hunting at the time they stocked them.

Curious what region in Wyoming you live and if it’s griz habitat?

 

[kwyeewyk]

Here in Wyoming the forest service has closed half of our roads in some areas of national forest, telling us that we damage the eco system by driving on 60 year old roads. One section of national forest closes the end of every winter and does not reopen until summer. Their excuse is that we cause habitat damage if we cane during the spring. Forest service passed all of this internally in 2017 without listening to public input.

Meanwhile a couple hours away the wind river reseveration has a huge wilderness area that predates usfs wilderness area designation by 26 years. Not only did these people maintain a wilderness area for all this time, they have elk genetics seen no where else, a population of wolverines, and lots of grizzly bears. The quality of their animals beats the national elk refuge by far. They also restocked bison on their lands. The usfs has yet to reintroduce bison in any capacity that will ever be huntable. The only mention of the usfs every stocking bison I can find online is a few of them they put over some extremely contaminated ground where a former ordinance plant was decomissioned, in a state that did not allow any rifle hunting at the time they stocked them.

Reading this post is like watching the movie Cliffhanger, at first I want to point out everything wrong, but by the end I'm just laughing because every line is a joke.

 

[Wyoming270]

Reading this post is like watching the movie Cliffhanger, at first I want to point out everything wrong, but by the end I'm just laughing because every line is a joke.

A quick google search on your part would prove it is all accurate. The forest service has gotten really out of hand with seasonal road closures in wyoming. That combined with hundreds of thousands of acres of beetle killed pine that have burned, have destroyed a lot of it. Its all mis management by the usfs.

 

[Wyoming270]

Curious what region in Wyoming you live and if it’s griz habitat?

It doesnt matter which part of wyoming I live in, i enjoy all of it with frequent trips to every part of the state. The wind river reservation is just about the middle of the state. The worst of the forest service closures of roads and seasonal closures are the medicine bow national forest. The worst of the beetle kill, and humdreds of thousands of acres of burned zones are in the medicine bow and routte national forests. those areas do not have grizzlies. Im not really sure what that being grizzly habitst has to do with anything. I know from first hand accounts the large grizzly population on the reservation has caused issues for a lot of people and animals. The portions of wyoming with grizzlies are pretty small compared to the total area of the state. they have expanded their range notably in the last decade.

 

[wyflyguy]

I'm not trying to argue that the Pueblo couldn't or wouldn't do anything to improve wildlife habitat if they took control. That's not my issue. My issue is that I foresee the public losing access to 10,000 acres of what is now National Forest land altogether. And, as the OP pointed out, it's not just hunting access that's at risk. There are popular hiking trails and other recreation that occurs on that land now that all have high probability of being lost if the Pueblo is allowed to assume control.

 

[Wyoming270]

Some tribes make a living off setting up roadblocks on State-maintained roads through a sliver of their land and confiscating rifles/issuing fines for any hunter that doesn't know they're supposed to physically remove a magazine from a rifle before transiting the 20 yd stretch. Sad sight to see little kids have their hunt ended when their grandpa didn't realize they crossed over the wrong 20 feet of dirt on a NM-state maintained road. I avoid tribal land like the plague when hunting.

Id love to see your sources on this. The tik tok video of the people from burning man getting arressted by tribal police doesnt count as a source for this opinion.

 

[Wyoming270]

Reading this post is like watching the movie Cliffhanger, at first I want to point out everything wrong, but by the end I'm just laughing because every line is a joke.

Let us see your sources that prove your opinion.