BrentD
Well-known member
Thanks for the PM mtmuley. Brilliant. Read my first post of the evening. Just read it again and breath deep.
Best Muzzleloader to Buy?- Short Notice
- Thread starter Gerald Martin
- Start date
Dan O
Well-known member
Those are hollow base no gas check there.
Dan O
Well-known member
Just picked up a case of Swiss 1 1/2 to pick up when my beloved OE goes the way of the DoDo bird.
Dan O
Well-known member
Kinda like all the new folks trying archery or rifle hunting. I do agree they should wait and learn their tool of choice before trying to take an animal with it.
BrentD
Well-known member
You won't be sorry and your scores will probably rise 10%Just picked up a case of Swiss 1 1/2 to pick up when my beloved OE goes the way of the DoDo bird.
Get over yourself Brent. mtmuley
Dan O
Well-known member
LOL I should be so lucky. But I'll give it my best as I really could use that extra 10%.You won't be sorry and your scores will probably rise 10%
BrentD
Well-known member
Your rams and turkeys will not be happy with you. They will become as endangered as the Montana Elk with this new muzzleloader season....
BrentD
Well-known member
Good thing you edited that quickly. You could get in trouble one day.
But here we are 5 or 6 more posts in from when you signed off for the evening (and one absolutely brilliantly devastating PM as well), and you still can't address a direct question or three.
I'm still waiting on how this is
.
Your words - Now back them up and tell us how this is.
Meanwhile for those that might actually be interested in a traditional (not very primative) muzzleloader hunt, every part of the United States has been assigned "Field Representatives" but the NMLRA (National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association). If you get in touch with one, they may be able to help you find bullets or powder or put you in touch with someone local to you that can help you in person at the range.
A couple months ago a Hunt Talker from Alaska needed to find powder in Missouri when he arrived to hunt deer with his brothers. We got him hooked up with the local field rep in St. Louis area, and he was good to go.
Just another way to get help when the only folks around seem to be mtmuley, Gerald, and that catchy whippersnapper tjones.
44hunter45
Well-known member
Take a tip from Idaho. There is nothing more primitive than a hawken gun strapped to the handle bars of an ATV or Snow Machine.
And who doesn’t love the thought of pulling a round ball out of a critter that has been packing it around for months
Do to construction work this year, I will not be hunting the muzzleloader season this year, nor did I hunt any of the 6 weeks of archery or 5 weeks of rifle. I’m glad I didn’t go, bc it didn’t appear to be that great of hunting weather and low animal numbers. I had everything setup but couldn’t get off the time.
I will make up for it next year. And I best most of these guys on this forum, hunt both the archery season and rifle seasons, rally around hunters that hunt bighorn sheep for 80 days a season into the rut, and take full advantage of any opportunity.
I’m really getting tired of Geralds, Brockels, MtMulys, others dogging other hunters for their choices and childless/funny comments. Guys it’s not funny anymore. Your frustration should be directed at the MT FWP and politicians for promoting these crazy seasons. We need to go to a draw for a few years in every unit, shorten seasons, implement weapons choice etc, and after 3-5 years every district would be producing 300 inch bulls, and good bucks on public land.
This forum has really went downhill over the last few years, much like hunting in Montana, from the voices of a select few in Montana hammering on anyone that disagrees with them, much like what is happening with big game management in Montana. We need changes all around.
I will make up for it next year. And I best most of these guys on this forum, hunt both the archery season and rifle seasons, rally around hunters that hunt bighorn sheep for 80 days a season into the rut, and take full advantage of any opportunity.
I’m really getting tired of Geralds, Brockels, MtMulys, others dogging other hunters for their choices and childless/funny comments. Guys it’s not funny anymore. Your frustration should be directed at the MT FWP and politicians for promoting these crazy seasons. We need to go to a draw for a few years in every unit, shorten seasons, implement weapons choice etc, and after 3-5 years every district would be producing 300 inch bulls, and good bucks on public land.
This forum has really went downhill over the last few years, much like hunting in Montana, from the voices of a select few in Montana hammering on anyone that disagrees with them, much like what is happening with big game management in Montana. We need changes all around.
Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,302
Pagosa, perhaps you need to read a little deeper.
Most MT hunters agree that FWP needs to change management policy, yet are excited to take advantage of more opportunity when they think it gives them an edge. If pointing out the hypocrisy hurts a few feelings then maybe that’s what it takes for people to change their attitudes about responsible game management.
All of us had at least 77 days to pursue elk and deer already this year. Many units have an additional 60 days to kill cows.
All of us are well aware of the decline in hunting quality across MT, yet FWP and our Legislators only hear from a vocal few who are fed up with the status quo. Those vocal few are usually marginalized because there are far more who let their excitement over “opportunity” override what they know wildlife needs.
You cite Hunttalker’s support for Greenhorn’s 88 day search for a ram. If I have my stats correct, that included 47 days of preseason scouting and 41 days of hunting. All within regularly established seasons and on a LIMITED tag that ensured no more than the desired number of rams were harvested. Hardly an apples to apples comparison to adding more days to hunt an already stressed resource that has unlimited OTC resident tags and zero accounting for how many more additional deer and elk are taken.
I get it that there’s a small contingent of muzzleloading enthusiasts who will be proficient with their weapon and are individually responsible in how they hunt. I also know that there’s a larger constituency who are taking to the woods for the first time with a weapon they really aren’t proficient with.
I also know that every deer and elk that dies during the 9 day muzzleloader season made it through eleven prior weeks of hunting and would have been safe from being killed by a hunter had this season not been implemented. Every buck and bull killed this year is one less available to hunt next year. At what point does a finite resource become depleted to the point where “opportunity” is a sad joke? Are muzzleloaders the tipping point? I don’t know. I do know that MT hunters have settled for an extremely low threshold of quality because we have prioritized exploitation and named it “opportunity”.
We should be ashamed for arguing over who gets the public land scraps instead of advocating for what could make the quality of MT hunting so much better.
I am sorry if anyone is offended by my too true tropes of what the new Montana muzzleloader hunter will be like. Go hunt without guilt or hunt with guilt, it’s all the same. Why anyone cares what I think or anyone else thinks about the new season is unimportant.
What is important is what are you and other muzzleloader enthusiasts going to do to change the status quo of what passes for wildlife management in MT?
HeadedWest
New member
Well, for the first time in nineteen years of hunting MT as a resident, I find myself at the end of eleven weeks of season without having notched a single tag.
Thankfully, I still have late muzzleloader season to get ‘er done.
Anyone got a good suggestion of what muzzleloader I should buy from Cabelas or Walmart? Hopefully something that will be pretty much sighted in from the get go since I don’t have any extra time to practice a lot.
Planning to keep my shots under 200 yards since I will be hunting mostly from my snowmobile on the gated roads.
Thanks in advance for everyone’s suggestions and advice.
HeadedWest
New member
I don' believe any of them would be sighted in. I have a 50 cal cva thumb hole stock. and scope ready to go if you want to pick it up in kalamazoo. I'd sell it with all necessaries for you for a fair price so you wouldn't have to drive back.
Gerald I completely agree with the last four paragraphs, and have some differences on the first couple ideas. What I’m getting at is when someone honestly comes onto a forum asking about hunting opportunities and certain groups hammer on them/laugh at them for taking up an additional hunting opportunity, whether it muzzleloader season or spring bear hunting with hounds, I’ve seen people get roasted by Groups/Circles for their different takes on issues.
The dumbest animal in the woods is a rutting bighorn sheep and shooting one in the rut is crazy management by the FWP, I don’t care if it’s highly regulated or not, it’s not the hunter fault. Greenhorn and others got beautiful rams, and I would have waited for the last 10 days and then went hunting. It’s just not good management either way to hunt mule deer in the rut with rifles, late season bulls when the FWP extended the season in 2011 or 12, or bighorn sheep in the rut. It’s hypocritical to bash one and support the other. We are barking up the wrong tree if we attack some other guy for hunting in the shoulder season, muzzleloader season, etc.
I’m moving on and we agree on 90% of the items.
The dumbest animal in the woods is a rutting bighorn sheep and shooting one in the rut is crazy management by the FWP, I don’t care if it’s highly regulated or not, it’s not the hunter fault. Greenhorn and others got beautiful rams, and I would have waited for the last 10 days and then went hunting. It’s just not good management either way to hunt mule deer in the rut with rifles, late season bulls when the FWP extended the season in 2011 or 12, or bighorn sheep in the rut. It’s hypocritical to bash one and support the other. We are barking up the wrong tree if we attack some other guy for hunting in the shoulder season, muzzleloader season, etc.
I’m moving on and we agree on 90% of the items.
Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,302
Not to drag this out Pagosa, but comparing the hunt dates allowed for highly regulated species such as bighorns and very loosely regulated and studied species with unlimited OTC licenses like deer and elk is not apples to apples. One can be biologically justified because of strict oversight. The other has such loose parameters that if it wasn’t for self imposed restraint by private landowners who limit access to wildlife or the natural obstacles imposed by terrain, deer and elk herds in MT would be in even worse condition than they are.
We can agree or argue about whether any animals should be killed during periods of their breeding season because of increased vulnerability while they are distracted, but that is essentially an argument of preference not sound biological management.
The general attitude of hunters in Montana is uninformed and unconcerned about the biological needs of wildlife. Most care for their quarry only in light of how they can redeem their department issued coupon in the form of a dead animal.
Top down directed management policies implemented by our legislators are always going to be a reflection of the attitudes of a majority of Montana hunters. Until attitudes change policy will not.
The average hunter’s attitude will not change as long as the celebration of “opportunity” overshadows the very real decline of wildlife.
It’s easier to blame every predator except ourselves for the decline of deer and elk than it is to alter our behavior towards responsible game management.
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