Bad Hunter Education Experience

[Ben Lamb]

Very disappointing. If I was you, I would think about a call to Thomas Baumeister in Helena FWP. He is the state Hunter Ed coordinator for the Department. A really good guy. I suspect he would get to the bottom of it.

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Agreed on Thomas. His direct line is: 406-444-9946. Call. Don't email. Thomas is a solid guy and will get this straightened out.

FWP is always looking for new Hunter Ed Instructors. If you have the time, it's worth giving back. http://fwp.mt.gov/education/hunter/instructors/default.html

 

[bobbydean]

My daughter and I did attend hunter education probably 15 years ago. It was fun! Discussions and films for a couple of nights and then we had the comprehensive test. Luckly I beat my daughter, but we both passed. Did have a problem with the shooting portion of the program. With a very slight 11 year old shooting a full size shotgun, She couldn't handle it and was not allowed to participate. Could not pass the class without it. I thought smaller shotguns should have been available. My daughter had shot in a 4H shooting program for 3 years. She knew how to shoot. We were prepared her next class.

OP. something definitely smells bad in your situation!

 

[RobG]

Something is seriously wrong. My daughter did hunter safety last year in Bozeman and it was a great experience. It was nothing like this in structure or attitude.

 

[jerrym]

Wow, that is terrible. i took the course with my daughter about ten years ago and she had a great time and learned a lot. The instructors did say a couple of weird things and I bit my tongue. But during the map and compass triangulation part they were just laying the map on the ground and not orienting to north. I raised my hand and called them on it and they never got what I was talking about, so I showed them and taught declination also lol. I think they were a little embarrassed but if kid did their method in the woods it would not work.

Call and complain, I bet you aren't the only parent who is concerned.

 

[SFC B]

Elkwhisperer, I really hate to hear that. Its clear they were not the kind of group you want teaching your daughter hunter education. I sure hope it won't discourage her from trying again. I put on a hunter's ed class 3-4 times a year at my part-time job at BIG R, where I am the floor supervisor, and it is always a full house and a good time. Its a 2 day deal, and I get pizzas and the store provides drinks . . . the kids and parents are able to relax and enjoy all of the volunteers/ CO's info and hopefully it makes a difference, thats my goal at least. I'm not sure if they offer it online there, but, here in Indiana it takes forever to complete it online. Good luck and tell your daughter to keep her chin up!

(oh, and no spit cups allowed in class either!)

My son did this class online (IN) and it was in fact pretty long. But, that being said, there was much more to it than I anticipated and it challenged him. It was more in depth than the NC course I got in person at Ft Bragg. It is a good option if she is computer savvy a little and you can't find one around to get into. I think it my son a couple of weeks (maybe an hour a day) as it is a "paced" program.

 

[Elkwhisper]

Guys,

Thanks for the input and support. I am still not sure what to think about all this, as I am still on the road and am only going off what a PO'd wife and a crying young lady told me last night. The only thing I can figure is that maybe this class was some sort of fast track, or advanced class, but when I signed her up it clearly stated that is it was for ages 11 and up and gave the time and location...no further details. Over the past couple of weeks I received a few emails instructing us to pick up the book and complete the quizzes. One email vaguely mentioned taking a test or quiz the first day, but I assumed that was to gauge where the students were at and to give them an idea of what to expect on the final test so that they could better study and prepare themselves. I was shocked when I learned that when she didn't pass the first test that she was asked to leave. I went back on the course listing site last night and see that there are several other courses available, and many / most of them are several more hours that the one she was signed up for. That said, the course she was signed up for was a total of like 12 or 13 hours, so what do they do AFTER they take the test. It doesn't make any sense to me. If I signed her up for the wrong class, I guess that was my bad, but the course description I registered her for did not specify.

I guess I will go down to MFWP on Monday and get an explanation before I sign her up for another class. I will make sure I can go with her next time.... which I really look forward to anyway.

 

[twodot]

Ahhhg !!! Never mind, I can't come near describing how things like this frustrate me. I just don't have the words

 

[Frenchy]

Bring her to Bozeman! Sounds like the one her is top Notch and Uncle David would love to take her through the course.

Sorry to hear the first experience was less than steller!

 

[Sawtooth]

Not sure about Montana, but here in Idaho we have an on line option where most of the instruction is supposed to take place at home online, and an on site option which was lead by instructors in a classroom and took several days to complete. With the online class, they had my son show up for one day of review and written test, and one day of firearm safety/shooting range work. He was expected to have finished all the coursework before arriving to take the final written and field tests. Could it be that your daughter was placed in one of these online/at home courses? Regardless of what course you were signed up for, your description of the instruction was unprofessional as they should have had a quick review of the information or a question/answer session to help the students get focused on the task at hand. Not just have them sit down and take the test cold. If I remember correctly, Idaho also gave those students who didn't pass the test the first time, an opportunity to review the questions they missed and then retake the test that afternoon. They didn't just kick them loose and tell them to retake the course. I am sorry your daughter had such a bad experience, but after reading the posts of the other Montana Hunt Talkers on this thread, her next experience will be much better. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I just got an email from Thomas Baumeister at FWP about this:

Hi Ben: quick note to let you and the folks blogging on your site this morning know that we are checking in with our instructors to get more details of what took place in the Billings hunter ed class last night. Meanwhile, be assured that our instructors want nothing more than for our youth to be out hunting.

FYI, Wayde Cooperider is the new hunter ed program coordinator for FWP. He’s a great guy, feel free to reach out to him any time: 406-444-9947, [email protected] Of course, I’m available as well. –tb

 

[Elkwhisper]

Thanks Ben..... And everyone else for that matter. Please understand that I am not trying to point any fingers or get anyone in trouble. I really do appreciate anyone who gives their time to programs like this. I was just a little worked up about how upset my wife and daughter were. No doubt if I had been there I could have "buffered" the situation better.

We will do it again.....together and hope for a better result. I know she is ready to hunt and we can't wait.

 

[Tom]

Take a look at the online course. You can take each of the 10 quizzes as much as you want, i.e. until you pass. https://www.hunter-ed.com/register/create After passing the tests then you go for a field day. Its a good way to do the course that's different than just classroom.

 

[jerrym]

From a middle school teacher, call me old fashioned but I would not take a hunters ed course on line. You need to be there and learn from the instructors and class mates. See the demos and materials hands on. Just my thoughts, and obviously you need good instructors which I believe you will find. Plus I was looking at Montana's online course and it said you need to be 18 years old to take it on line.

 

[Tom]

"You must be at least 18 years old to take the online course." my error, sorry. So, taking the online course in a different state and doing the field day in a different state would be logistically hard.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

From a middle school teacher, call me old fashioned but I would not take a hunters ed course on line. You need to be there and learn from the instructors and class mates. See the demos and materials hands on. Just my thoughts, and obviously you need good instructors which I believe you will find. Plus I was looking at Montana's online course and it said you need to be 18 years old to take it on line.

Actually, the online courses have been very successful with kids here in Washington. There is no way a kid could have their mom, dad, brother, etc do the online test for them and then show up and pass the written test in the field day. In addition, they still have to be able to demonstrate the ability to safely navigate obstacles in the field while carrying a firearm.

I know the resistance is there from a lot of other instructors, but the proof is in the results. The kids who fail the online course would have very likely failed the traditional classroom course. My 10 year old daughter took the course online and did very well in the field day. As with anything, the level of parental involvement will show when it comes to test day.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Thanks Ben..... And everyone else for that matter. Please understand that I am not trying to point any fingers or get anyone in trouble. I really do appreciate anyone who gives their time to programs like this. I was just a little worked up about how upset my wife and daughter were. No doubt if I had been there I could have "buffered" the situation better.

We will do it again.....together and hope for a better result. I know she is ready to hunt and we can't wait.

Please do a followup to the guy in charge of the Hunter Ed Program like everyone has mentioned and don't let these guys off the hook if the class was presented like your daughter told you. If it was as bad as they told you, they should not be repesenting the state of MT in that manner, especially to young, impressionable kids.

 

[idnative1948]

Just took my grandson through Hunter Ed here in Boise last summer. Sat in on the class with him every night other when he was with his DB dad two nights a week. The class was packed, but three instructors keep everybody's attention. Being a smart kid, we stayed after class a couple of nights so he could work ahead for the nights he couldn't be there and do his reading for the next chapter. Instructor called him at home and quizzed him.
Range day at Blacks Creek was VERY organized. Needless, he passed with flying colors and was invited on a private pheasant hunt due to his class participation. But, daddy dearest didn't want to spend the time to take him and pick him up at the very last minute.

My hat is off to the great volunteers at IDFG. What a great group of folks!!

Not sure about Montana, but here in Idaho we have an on line option where most of the instruction is supposed to take place at home online, and an on site option which was lead by instructors in a classroom and took several days to complete. With the online class, they had my son show up for one day of review and written test, and one day of firearm safety/shooting range work. He was expected to have finished all the coursework before arriving to take the final written and field tests. Could it be that your daughter was placed in one of these online/at home courses? Regardless of what course you were signed up for, your description of the instruction was unprofessional as they should have had a quick review of the information or a question/answer session to help the students get focused on the task at hand. Not just have them sit down and take the test cold. If I remember correctly, Idaho also gave those students who didn't pass the test the first time, an opportunity to review the questions they missed and then retake the test that afternoon. They didn't just kick them loose and tell them to retake the course. I am sorry your daughter had such a bad experience, but after reading the posts of the other Montana Hunt Talkers on this thread, her next experience will be much better. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Lawnboy]

While I haven't had the same experience as you I did have a bad taste after both of my experiences. The first was with my son on the last day (field day). All we were told to do was bring your guns to the range. We show up to the Logan gun Range along with another father son combo only to be greeted by some wanna be drill sergeant who tells us he cannot inspect our weapons because they are not in a case. It isn't said nicely but loud and really rude. He goes on to insult myself and the other father saying that we have no business walking with guns outside of cases. What a putz. Because we had brought the guns in the truck unloaded and without a case we didn't know what to do. Another dad walks up and hands us a blanket and says that they will accept it if it's wrapped up in a blanket
The part that makes me mad is the way he talked to me and the impression he had on a 12 year old. I saw our instructor there and told him what happened and asked him why he hadn't told us to bring a case and he apologized and said he didn't think it mattered.
The next experience was with my daughter recently. It was during the portion when the warden comes and talks. The warden in her class went off on trail cameras and said that he has a big stash of them. He said that he tears down everyone he sees I'm thinking that there are people who just for fun put those up and are not using them to pattern or track animals for the purposes of hunting but just to get pictures. I felt he was out of line and didn't handle that issue properly.
I like most think the instructors are great and for the most part do an excellent job. In these instances it wasn't instructors but some that were part of the days program. You can either make or break a child's spirit and you have to be careful on how you instruct and criticize.

 

[David R.]

As an active Mt. Hunter Ed instructor, I am saddened to hear that your daughter had such an unpleasant experience. I hope her next class will be a positive one and end with a passing grade. Hopefully by this autumn you will be sharing pictures of her first hunt.

 

[Elkwhisper]

Thanks again to everyone for their input and responses and a special thanks to Ben Lamb who helped bring the issue to the attention of the powers that be at MFWP who did contact me. I still want to look into this a little bit and compare notes with the other father I know who was there when I get home. But from what I learned today the class my daughter was registered for was some kind of abbreviated class that required extensive preperation and they had to pass the test right away to quality. The problem is that none of this was mentioned on the site I registered her on. To be fair I did receive an email sometime after we registered indicating that additional details had been posted......with an apology for the delay. Apparently the additional details probably outlined the advanced requirements, but due to my travel schedule I didn't have time to review it. I guess I just assumed that a " Hunter Education Classroom Course" included instruction prior to the test.

I take responsibility for the mistake on my end but am still concerned that both my wife and daughter as well as the other father and daughter we know came awayvery turned off by the whole experience. We have already picked a new course to enroll the girls in and they will be ready to go come next hunting season.