Anybody Buying Yet? Where’s the Bottom?

[SAJ-99]

Man, I can't agree with any of this sympathy for young people. Not when there's so much opportunity (literally EVERYONE is hiring), not when every guy over 16 thinks they're entitled to commute in a $60k full sized new pickup, needs a side by side, a full kuiu kit, it goes on and on...

I don’t see the hiring, at least not hiring of people that won’t jump at a better opportunity at first chance. We better figure it out because nothing destabilizes a society quicker than young men with nothing to do and no prospects.

 

[Irrelevant]

I don’t see the hiring, at least not hiring of people that won’t jump at a better opportunity at first chance. We better figure it out because nothing destabilizes a society quicker than young men with nothing to do and no prospects.

HAve you looked? I can't think of a single business that isn't hiring. The trouble is that everyone is "holding out for management" or some stupid thing like that

 

[Southern Elk]

HAve you looked? I can't think of a single business that isn't hiring. The trouble is that everyone is "holding out for management" or some stupid thing like that

 

[mtmuley]

I don’t see the hiring, at least not hiring of people that won’t jump at a better opportunity at first chance. We better figure it out because nothing destabilizes a society quicker than young men with nothing to do and no prospects.

America's 'silent army' of skilled trades workers is vanishing—and it's a $1 trillion crisis | Fortune https://share.google/rwBOGSoGLdByzu4Cl
mtmuley

 

[406dn]

HAve you looked? I can't think of a single business that isn't hiring. The trouble is that everyone is "holding out for management" or some stupid thing like that

The refinery that I worked at would go years, without hiring a regular employee. I am certain it is still that way. When jobs pay a very good wage, people stay, in my case 28 years.

Finding a job with mediocre wages is not too difficult. Finding a good job with a future, has never been easy.

More and more, the work place is drifting to a gig economy. Companies avoid offering benefits that way. Often there is a carrot, of, if things work out, you'll get on as a full time employee. Very often the person comes to the realization that the company is stringing them along.

Even the company I retired from did this sort of thing. They used temporary employees to load asphalt. The job paid a wage, with no benefits. At the time, the Collective Bargaining Agreement was silent on how long this job could be worked, without making them a regular employee. There were guys that worked several years, hoping that they would get made a regular employee.

During my time as the Union Chairman, we got this changed. The limit on the employment as a temporary employee was capped at two years. That gave the company plenty of of time to determine if the person should get hired. Companies are not above stringing a person along, paying far less than the work is worth.

 

[Irrelevant]

More and more, the work place is drifting to a gig economy. Companies avoid offering benefits that way. Often there is a carrot, of, if things work out, you'll get on as a full time employee. Very often the person comes to the realization that the company is stringing them along.

From my angle, there are so many shitty workers out there that you don't want to invest in them until you know they can at least do a serviceable job. Plus, we seem to be increasingly hamstrung from letting people go by wrongful termination threats (real or perceived), which means I really don't want to offer you anything so that if it doesn't work out, maybe you'll leave on your own accord.

 

[406dn]

From my angle, there are so many shitty workers out there that you don't want to invest in them until you know they can at least do a serviceable job. Plus, we seem to be increasingly hamstrung from letting people go by wrongful termination threats (real or perceived), which means I really don't want to offer you anything so that if it doesn't work out, maybe you'll leave on your own accord.

Two sides of the coin, and the fruit it's yielding isn't that sweet.

You aren't going to attract many great employees, by starting them out with low wages. Maybe some are leaving for a better job.

 

[Bonasababy]

Two sides of the coin, and the fruit it's yielding isn't that sweet.

You aren't going to attract many great employees, by starting them out with low wages. Maybe some are leaving for a better job.

Yep.

Employers that refuse to acknowledge changes in the marketplace are the loudest complainers. Employees have more options and they increasingly shop for and are willing to leave for better pay or benefits.

 

[brymoore]

From my angle, there are so many shitty workers out there that you don't want to invest in them until you know they can at least do a serviceable job. Plus, we seem to be increasingly hamstrung from letting people go by wrongful termination threats (real or perceived), which means I really don't want to offer you anything so that if it doesn't work out, maybe you'll leave on your own accord.

I’m not sure what to think of the local employment situation.

During the national unemployment report last month, the national economist reported a No Fire, No Hire situation. For the most part, it seems to be true. High skilled workers are chased, lower levels are finding lower interest. Salaries are definitely rising for high skilled employees.

 

[Nameless Range]

I have worked at the same place for 15 years, and as long as the job stays as interesting as it is, I hope to spend my career there.

That said, in the IT-adjacent line of work I am in, I am always amazed how folks my age (millenials) job hop. Like, I would say the average length of term where I work on my team for folks my age is 2-3 years, and it's a good gig. I attribute this to two things:

1) People are less grounded than they once were. They don't identify with the communities in which they live as much as they view the communities in which they moved to as something they wanted to experience. They aren't from here as much anymore and are open to living somewhere else.

2) The easiest way to get a pay raise in nearly all types of jobs, is to get a new job.

That said, pretty much all of us got our foot in the door through internships/bitch work that no longer exists and is now largely automated. Not sure what the career ladder looks like for someone starting out anymore, but we don't hire interns anymore and it is largely related to the fact that you don't need em.

 

[Irrelevant]

2) The easiest way to get a pay raise in nearly all types of jobs, is to get a new job.

This came up at work the other day. I see this as only true in certain lines of work. Professional Services isn't one of them. So much of the job is based on integrating into your new company, their clients, and learning how to start bringing in your own work. Therefore, no one even comes in above where they were. As an employer, you basically have to convince them that if they "work out" the pay will follow. If you want to look around, you have to hope that the quality of life/work is simply better and be able to handle a decrease in payment in the short-term.

However, your comment seems to ring true for public sector work. Everyone I know in that field jumps in order to move up, simply because there is so little internal growth within those institutions that not everyone has the ability to move up in their career at the same org.

 

[Nick87]

Salaries are definitely rising for high skilled employees.

Getting payed over scale use to be almost unheard of. Not anymore and that's after record breaking contracts as of late on top of it. Some of the help we are getting is really good but a lot of it would've never made it a week without getting let go 20 years ago. Now they hardly let anybody go because they simply can't get anyone else. Definitely different times than when I entered the workforce.

 

[SAJ-99]

HAve you looked? I can't think of a single business that isn't hiring. The trouble is that everyone is "holding out for management" or some stupid thing like that

They must be building data centers your way. LOL. There is not much around here. Much less than a couple of years ago. There is hiring in healthcare, but that industry is a mess so I can't tell what is real and what is fishing. Everything else is gig economy. If you want to cut grass, make sandwiches, bag groceries or something similar you could probably find a job. Have experience and a college degree in a specific field? good luck.

 

[Nick87]

They must be building data centers your way. LOL. There is not much around here. Much less than a couple of years ago. There is hiring in healthcare, but that industry is a mess so I can't tell what is real and what is fishing. Everything else is gig economy. If you want to cut grass, make sandwiches, bag groceries or something similar you could probably find a job. Have experience and a college degree in a specific field? good luck.

Are you pretty rural there? There's a lot more going on here other than data centers.

 

[SAJ-99]

Are you pretty rural there? There's a lot more going on here other than data centers.

No, not rural. Largest urban center between Seattle and Minneapolis at 750,000ish people. We have plenty of data centers but they are nearer the dams for the electricity. It's pretty representative of the overall economy - hiring in Healthcare and Government, while business growth is lackluster. Prices are starting to have an impact on spending. Nationwide, AI theme is driving the nation's economic bus.