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Annual pronghorn elation/sadness/confusion thread

bts09

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The day tag results come out, there’s always elation (Yay! I finally got my _ tag!), sadness (Bummer. Another year not chasing antelope.), and confusion (How the heck did a unit go from 100% draw odds to 10% draw odds???).

I won’t belabor the point Big Fin has made much more eloquently than I can in the past, which is, if we only focus on the pie that’s left, instead of growing the pie, we’re all playing a zero-sum game. There are a ton of people on this site that devote substantial time and monetary resources to conservation efforts, and I can’t thank them enough.

But because there are so many new people to this forum (many of whom I try to help as best I can with my limited knowledge, as many of you did for me several years ago), I thought maybe a general discussion of what the GoHunt effect is in the context of the antelope draw might be useful, as specifically shown by everyone’s current favorite “what the heck happened there” example, and that is, Unit 69 non-resident doe/fawn antelope tags.

In 2019, there were 167 doe/fawn tags in that unit against only 83 non-resident applicants. That makes it a 100% draw unit in that year (Period. Even if every 1st choice applicant requested two doe tags, there would still have been one left over, and in fact we know it was 100% because there were leftover tags in that unit in 2019).

But, and this is the big caveat, if you just look back in time one more year, to 2018, what you see is that there were 251 first choice applicants (there were also only 78 tags available that year). So in that year, at best, your odds of getting that doe tag were only 31% (78/251). And the real odds were lower because I’m sure some of those applications requested two tags.

In other words, the people going into the 2019 draw (which ended up being 100% for this tag) THOUGHT they only had a 31% (or less) chance.

This is the GoHunt/Information effect. People applying for a 2019 tag saw that their odds were not good (when there are much better doe tag odds elsewhere) and chose not to apply for unit 69 and focused on other high odds units. Fast forward to 2019, where the draw odds tell you it’s a 100% unit for a lot of accessible land, and bingo. It’s still not quite a full explanation for why it went from 83 first choice applications to 1264 (not a typo) first choice applicants, but still...

This, to my mind, is both the blessing and the curse of the amount of information that out’s there now (and by the way, Wyoming has been publishing this data for a long time in an accessible way, it’s just that GoHunt makes it even easier for everyone to digest). The fact is, each year, some units will have much better draw odds than before because people look at last year’s odds and don’t like their chances, so they don’t apply. Then some units, like this one, will go from gettable to a really long shot overnight. Winner and losers.

But to parrot Randy’s point, if every year there’s just a general bemoaning of how the odds are getting worse and the points are creeping, and no real action taken to increase and protect the resource itself, my fear is that some day soon, hunting will be exclusively a rich person’s game (those that can afford to hire outfitters and pay for private land tags). And as I am not a rich man, I again say thanks to all those who are doing what they can to help grow the pie.
 
I think a lot of people opted to burn points this year. The special deer and antelope results are crazy in some units, hundreds of people applied in 100% second choice units as their first choice. My third choice was 100% (with leftovers after the draw) in 2019 and pretty much all previous years. Well this year, with almost no quota reduction, my third choice went down to 50%.

Also, leftover quotas are wack, 2019 to 2020, hundreds of Type 1 tags were issued and there are barely any left! Not sure if this is due to a spike in people burning points and the resulting guys who usually draw 2nd choice were bumped to 3rd or nadda.
 
I thought maybe a general discussion of what the GoHunt effect is in the context of the antelope draw might be useful, as specifically shown by everyone’s current favorite “what the heck happened there” example, and that is, Unit 69 non-resident doe/fawn antelope tags.

In 2019, there were 167 doe/fawn tags in that unit against only 83 non-resident applicants. That makes it a 100% draw unit in that year (Period. Even if every 1st choice applicant requested two doe tags, there would still have been one left over, and in fact we know it was 100% because there were leftover tags in that unit in 2019).

But, and this is the big caveat, if you just look back in time one more year, to 2018, what you see is that there were 251 first choice applicants (there were also only 78 tags available that year). So in that year, at best, your odds of getting that doe tag were only 31% (78/251). And the real odds were lower because I’m sure some of those applications requested two tags.

In other words, the people going into the 2019 draw (which ended up being 100% for this tag) THOUGHT they only had a 31% (or less) chance.

This is the GoHunt/Information effect. People applying for a 2019 tag saw that their odds were not good (when there are much better doe tag odds elsewhere) and chose not to apply for unit 69 and focused on other high odds units. Fast forward to 2019, where the draw odds tell you it’s a 100% unit for a lot of accessible land, and bingo. It’s still not quite a full explanation for why it went from 83 first choice applications to 1264 (not a typo) first choice applicants, but still...

This was my first year applying in WY and i relied on a combination of GoHunt and WY's game and fish data to lock down what i thought was a for sure unit with zero points. Next year i will focus on year to year trends instead of just focusing on odds from the previous year. I think digging deeper into the data will be interesting, i was pretty consumed by it this year.

Question, if you miss out on a tag and therefore accumulate a PP point, can you still buy another point when it opens up in July?
 
This was my first year applying in WY and i relied on a combination of GoHunt and WY's game and fish data to lock down what i thought was a for sure unit with zero points. Next year i will focus on year to year trends instead of just focusing on odds from the previous year. I think digging deeper into the data will be interesting, i was pretty consumed by it this year.

Question, if you miss out on a tag and therefore accumulate a PP point, can you still buy another point when it opens up in July?

You dont accumulate a point by not drawing.
 
The day tag results come out, there’s always elation (Yay! I finally got my _ tag!), sadness (Bummer. Another year not chasing antelope.), and confusion (How the heck did a unit go from 100% draw odds to 10% draw odds???).

I won’t belabor the point Big Fin has made much more eloquently than I can in the past, which is, if we only focus on the pie that’s left, instead of growing the pie, we’re all playing a zero-sum game. There are a ton of people on this site that devote substantial time and monetary resources to conservation efforts, and I can’t thank them enough.

But because there are so many new people to this forum (many of whom I try to help as best I can with my limited knowledge, as many of you did for me several years ago), I thought maybe a general discussion of what the GoHunt effect is in the context of the antelope draw might be useful, as specifically shown by everyone’s current favorite “what the heck happened there” example, and that is, Unit 69 non-resident doe/fawn antelope tags.

In 2019, there were 167 doe/fawn tags in that unit against only 83 non-resident applicants. That makes it a 100% draw unit in that year (Period. Even if every 1st choice applicant requested two doe tags, there would still have been one left over, and in fact we know it was 100% because there were leftover tags in that unit in 2019).

But, and this is the big caveat, if you just look back in time one more year, to 2018, what you see is that there were 251 first choice applicants (there were also only 78 tags available that year). So in that year, at best, your odds of getting that doe tag were only 31% (78/251). And the real odds were lower because I’m sure some of those applications requested two tags.

In other words, the people going into the 2019 draw (which ended up being 100% for this tag) THOUGHT they only had a 31% (or less) chance.

This is the GoHunt/Information effect. People applying for a 2019 tag saw that their odds were not good (when there are much better doe tag odds elsewhere) and chose not to apply for unit 69 and focused on other high odds units. Fast forward to 2019, where the draw odds tell you it’s a 100% unit for a lot of accessible land, and bingo. It’s still not quite a full explanation for why it went from 83 first choice applications to 1264 (not a typo) first choice applicants, but still...

This, to my mind, is both the blessing and the curse of the amount of information that out’s there now (and by the way, Wyoming has been publishing this data for a long time in an accessible way, it’s just that GoHunt makes it even easier for everyone to digest). The fact is, each year, some units will have much better draw odds than before because people look at last year’s odds and don’t like their chances, so they don’t apply. Then some units, like this one, will go from gettable to a really long shot overnight. Winner and losers.

But to parrot Randy’s point, if every year there’s just a general bemoaning of how the odds are getting worse and the points are creeping, and no real action taken to increase and protect the resource itself, my fear is that some day soon, hunting will be exclusively a rich person’s game (those that can afford to hire outfitters and pay for private land tags). And as I am not a rich man, I again say thanks to all those who are doing what they can to help grow the pie.

Great write up and should be required reading for anyone wondering they missed out on what they thought was a "100% sure thing".
 
Man, I so fell victim to this (although there is a big silver lining). Based on what I saw, and to be fair I got this info from the WyoGF website, I totally saw this as a slam dunk for my wife and I to get our first taste of antelope hunting. My hubris even led me to apply for two tags for each of us, as a party. I think this means I limited us to one shot at drawing a doe tag. I just assumed it was a done deal. Would it have made a difference if I would have done four separate applications for us? I'm sure it would have!

Now, I also saw where I had a 6.5% chance of pulling a tag in the regular random draw, so I put both my wife and I in for that too (I only have a single point going into this year). Well, what do you know! I drew the 69-1 tag! I guess I won't be canceling that AirBnb in Casper!!!!
 
The doe tags I applied for had about 4 times the number of applications this year, and the quota was about half of what it was last year. So no tags for me. First year since I began applying in 2014 that I haven't drawn.
 
Now, I also saw where I had a 6.5% chance of pulling a tag in the regular random draw, so I put both my wife and I in for that too (I only have a single point going into this year). Well, what do you know! I drew the 69-1 tag! I guess I won't be canceling that AirBnb in Casper!!!!
Congrats! This will be a GREAT first antelope hunt for you, much better than most of us got the first time around.
 
It should also be noted that across the west, applications and license sales have been significantly above average. That pushed me to go special this year.
 
Sooo it’s apparent that widely across the Board Wyoming decreased the number of tags for antelope. Did you think that is in Response to Covid-19 to limit Out of state hunters (Wy was on a quarantine previously), or is it in response to assessment of the antelope herds or something else?? Based on what my rancher friends in Wyoming are telling me the herd numbers are up with tons of green grass as far as the eye can see. Why do you suppose game and fish decreased non-Resident tags?
 
It should also be noted that across the west, applications and license sales have been significantly above average. That pushed me to go special this year.
I've
Sooo it’s apparent that widely across the Board Wyoming decreased the number of tags for antelope. Did you think that is in Response to Covid-19 to limit Out of state hunters (Wy was on a quarantine previously), or is it in response to assessment of the antelope herds or something else?? Based on what my rancher friends in Wyoming are telling me the herd numbers are up with tons of green grass as far as the eye can see. Why do you suppose game and fish decreased non-Resident tags?
I'd assume it's based on herd counts and not Covid-19. The fact that there's been lots of rain, and that things look good, that should bode well for next year. It's literally a year-to-year prospect I think, if there are lots of young born, and they survive the winter, the counts go up. If the counts go up the number of tags go up!
 
I think a lot of people opted to burn points this year.
I suspect you’re right—tag prices going up, points getting more expensive, points devaluing each year because of creep, etc. And that has an amplifying effect on the rest of the tags, doe tags included—if more people are trying to get out there in “safe” draw units, why not tack on some “safe“ doe tags.

I suppose there’s also a chance that some of the anomalies this year might be COVID related—there may be more people just looking for any way to get out and hunt something, and in most years, Wyoming doe tags are pretty easy to come by and, well, affordably.
 
There is a spike this year because people are bored. I know I've personally applied for about 30% more tags in more states, just trying to get out. It should be a spike in the curve for one year but the overall trend will still be increasing apps next year and every other year going forward.
 
Sooo it’s apparent that widely across the Board Wyoming decreased the number of tags for antelope. Did you think that is in Response to Covid-19 to limit Out of state hunters (Wy was on a quarantine previously), or is it in response to assessment of the antelope herds or something else?? Based on what my rancher friends in Wyoming are telling me the herd numbers are up with tons of green grass as far as the eye can see. Why do you suppose game and fish decreased non-Resident tags?

No they didn't cut tags across the board. They cut tags in some units based on counts, like they always do.

That's the very reason that everyone from Florida to Washington wants to hunt pronghorn here...because they're managed correctly.

Your rancher buddies need to get off the farm once in a while, Wyoming's a pretty fair sized state.
 
Any unit that had a 25-50% chance in random drawing in the non-resident special experienced a 10x-12x increase in special 1st choice applications. I think most people better reconsider their application strategy. You are better off gunning for a unit with crap odds the year prior if your intent is to have a shot at a random tag.
 
Where can I find the draw stats for this year that indicates how many people applied for each hunt?

Never mind. I was just able to find it.

Thank you.
 
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