And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

Four22

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Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
272
Location
Ohio
Wait for the photo after mid July...this one will be child's play in comparison.

IMG_3653.JPG
Definitely looks like you “need more opportunity”..........
 

Mattff200

Active member
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Mar 1, 2019
Messages
98
I've made a few comments so far and I emailed my local state senator about my take on the proposed bill. So my take is all this will do is screw non-residents who pay for most of the wildlife conservation in Wyoming. We have amazing opportunity as Wyoming residents we can just go to Walmart and just buy our general deer and elk tags and on our deer tags we don't have to pick a region. We can draw antelope tags reliably every year depending on our unit of choice and MSG & Bison are still long shots like every state. At most our opportunity will increase marginally. As for funding there are other ways than raising our NR fees to ridiculously high rates. For that NR elk tag you can get the Montana Deer, Elk combo tag and get longer seasons and a rut rifle season for seer. Antelope will be way more expensive than everywhere else at 600 or 650. If I were a NR I'd look hard at Montana then. Also the whole we pay taxes here so we pay a lot we don't see doesn't really fly in Wyoming we don't have a state income tax, our property taxes are really low and our sales tax is pretty low so we don't pay much in taxes at all. So to sum it up with all the opportunity and perks I get as a resident, can just buy my tag to hunt region G tag every year and I can bounce around the state until I'm successful. So if I'm only allotted 80% of LE tags that seems like a fair trade to me. As for additional money for game and fish why do we just assume throwing more money at wildlife management is the only way it works, shouldn't they be mandated to adjust to new normals I know the tax layers of Wyoming did that last year.
 

LostinOregon1

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
45
I'm a deer hunter at heart so I crunched some numbers for some of the top deer units in Wyoming with a 90/10 split. I took the available tag numbers for 2021 off of the proposed tag numbers on the Wyoming Fish and Game website. I used the amount of residents applying for each unit from the 2020 applications
With a 90/10 split here are the odds and how they change for the resident:

Unit 87 goes from 4.6% to 7%
Unit 89 goes from 12% to 18%
Unit 90 goes from 5.9% to 8%
Unit 101 goes from 1.8 to 2%
Unit 102 goes from 3.9% to 5%
Unit 128 goes from 1.9% to 2.1%
Unit 130 goes from 1.9% to 2.1%

Working on crunching the NR numbers, but I will tell you already, it won't be good. For example, Unit 130 goes to 1 NR tag. In looking at the numbers, the windfall for the residents will be nominal statistically for a better chance of drawing. I am just stating numbers, and not saying that WY can't do what they want.

Rich
 

Pilgrim

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
21
Location
Michigan
It's a tough issue, and I appreciate the concerns residents have. But in all of these resident versus non-resident discussions, regardless of state, please don't lose sight of the fact that many non-residents like me try to contribute as best they can to organizations like RMEF, TU, Muley Fanatics, etc., for the sole purpose of supporting habitat enhancement and species health in the western states we visit. This is a significant benefit to both residents and non-residents alike. And the more western states discourage non-resident participation, the more likely funding for these organizations will suffer as a result.
 

BuzzH

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
12,699
Location
Laramie, WY
I've made a few comments so far and I emailed my local state senator about my take on the proposed bill. So my take is all this will do is screw non-residents who pay for most of the wildlife conservation in Wyoming. We have amazing opportunity as Wyoming residents we can just go to Walmart and just buy our general deer and elk tags and on our deer tags we don't have to pick a region. We can draw antelope tags reliably every year depending on our unit of choice and MSG & Bison are still long shots like every state. At most our opportunity will increase marginally. As for funding there are other ways than raising our NR fees to ridiculously high rates. For that NR elk tag you can get the Montana Deer, Elk combo tag and get longer seasons and a rut rifle season for seer. Antelope will be way more expensive than everywhere else at 600 or 650. If I were a NR I'd look hard at Montana then. Also the whole we pay taxes here so we pay a lot we don't see doesn't really fly in Wyoming we don't have a state income tax, our property taxes are really low and our sales tax is pretty low so we don't pay much in taxes at all. So to sum it up with all the opportunity and perks I get as a resident, can just buy my tag to hunt region G tag every year and I can bounce around the state until I'm successful. So if I'm only allotted 80% of LE tags that seems like a fair trade to me. As for additional money for game and fish why do we just assume throwing more money at wildlife management is the only way it works, shouldn't they be mandated to adjust to new normals I know the tax layers of Wyoming did that last year.
You want to pay my vehicle registrations and property taxes since its so insignificant then? Sounds like you either rent or live in a low tax county.

I'll be happy to send them your way....
 

BuzzH

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
12,699
Location
Laramie, WY
I'm a deer hunter at heart so I crunched some numbers for some of the top deer units in Wyoming with a 90/10 split. I took the available tag numbers for 2021 off of the proposed tag numbers on the Wyoming Fish and Game website. I used the amount of residents applying for each unit from the 2020 applications
With a 90/10 split here are the odds and how they change for the resident:

Unit 87 goes from 4.6% to 7%
Unit 89 goes from 12% to 18%
Unit 90 goes from 5.9% to 8%
Unit 101 goes from 1.8 to 2%
Unit 102 goes from 3.9% to 5%
Unit 128 goes from 1.9% to 2.1%
Unit 130 goes from 1.9% to 2.1%

Working on crunching the NR numbers, but I will tell you already, it won't be good. For example, Unit 130 goes to 1 NR tag. In looking at the numbers, the windfall for the residents will be nominal statistically for a better chance of drawing. I am just stating numbers, and not saying that WY can't do what they want.

Rich
Break out the total number of additional Resident hunters that would get to hunt those units as well...if you don't mind.
 

LostinOregon1

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
45
Here are the straight percentage predictions for the same deer units I did above, except these are for NR. I took the total amount of regular and special applications for each unit in 2020. I then took the quotas published for this year and reduced the amount of tags down to 10 percent. This doesn't take into account any points, this is the random draw odds if all tags stayed in this pool. I have not read the bill to see how many tags would go random and how many would go to the highest point holder. In the past if there were low numbers of permits, all of the permits went to the point pool and non of them went random. The number in parenthesis after the unit is the number of tags available to NR at the 90/10 split. Remember, these odds are without taking the tags out for the top point holders.

87 (10) 2022 draw odds .02% 10 tags for 354 applications
89 (17) 2022 draw odds .08% 17 tags for 200 applications
90 (7) 2022 draw odds .03% 7 tags for 182 applications
102 (2) 2022 draw odds .02% 20 tags for 726 applications
128 (5) 2022 draw odds .005% 5 tags for 882 applications
130 (1) 2022 draw odds .005% 1 tag for 175 applications

This change will basically make the top deer hunts once in a lifetime, and if you do not have max points now, it could be a very long wait.

Rich
 

Badger_55

Active member
Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
251
Good point, everyone wants to pay the GF 1978 wages to manage wildlife, and everybody wants to pay 1978 license fees to hunt as a NR too.
Sounds like everyone could shell out a little more then. What is a resident license? 26 bucks??
 

Alpine01

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
32
Location
Colorado
I may be a cynic - so be it. But I see a coordinated effort across the western states (or more precisely, certain groups within each state) that seek to first limit NR hunting - which will drive up costs to residents to achieve the same level of wildlife management - followed by a push to limit resident hunting. The endgame is to severely restrict/eliminate hunting all-together. It is easy to cater to the us vs them on the Res-NR front to achieve the first bite at the apple. Then you start hiking resident licenses and drive out all but the few, rich hunters and the hunting tradition fades. At that point it is easy to eliminate hunting completely as it "only serves the rich". As LostinOregon1 points out, it's not like the WY resident hunters are seeing a huge gain in draw likelihood with this approach.
 

Mattff200

Active member
Joined
Mar 1, 2019
Messages
98
You want to pay my vehicle registrations and property taxes since its so insignificant then?

I'll be happy to send them your way....
Vehicles registration is the only thing thats high in Wyoming and our property taxes are really low. The property taxes on my house are less than the quarterly payments on my relatives house back east and they have a state income tax and a high sales tax. Also I have a nice house on a decent sized lot. We also have some of thr lowest electricity rates in the nation. We have it really well as residents from a tax perspective. If your vehicle registration is too find a friend with property in another state and register your vehicles there like any Wyoming resident that can.
 

Badger_55

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Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
251
What tags got cut(speaking strictly elk)? Allocation is still at 7250 full price as i read bill just going to be more people getting generals, dont like it or think its to pricey dont apply...more non res will have bull tags next year than this year i believe
Clearly meant the limited quota tags that will be cut in half for the NR. It's going to be a circus for those general tags.
 

LostinOregon1

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
45
Buzz,

Here it is, unit number and additional residents that get tags,

87-8 more residents
89-16 more residents
90-8 more residents
101-1 more resident (no random tags now, that's why the numbers are off)
102-5 more residents
128-5 more residents
130-2 more residents (no random tags now)

The statistical impact will be significant on the resident numbers with units with higher tag numbers like antelope hunts and deer/elk units with quotas over 200. These examples are generally low tag number units. 102 has the most tags at 200 and it adds 5 more residents.
 

Badger_55

Active member
Joined
Feb 21, 2016
Messages
251
Will it really?

Going from 80/20 to 90/10 means you're adjusting the price of some tags to Special (25% of the 20% NR tags are already Special) for 10% of the tags sold at the NR Special prices. The other 10% goes from Regular NR prices to very low Resident prices. I really don't think this is about money. This will also cut in half the amount of tags issued to NR and cut the amount of NR $ spent in local economie.

Sure, Residents can decide what they want in terms of opportunities but I really don't believe this will help G&F or local economies.

If this was about money, they would raise all NR tags prices to Special pricing and implement a mandatory hunting license to purchase points like most states do.
Very clear.
 
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