A bunch of Jerks

Calif. Hunter

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An absolute bunch of jerks
Raoul Lowery Contreras
November 5, 2003

A few days ago, I opened my front door at 9:00 in the morning and could see no sun; the sky was black with smoke. During the next 96-hours, over 2000 homes would be burned to the ground, 20 people killed and almost 300,000 acres of my county burned to ashes.

While this was going on, United States Navy and United States Marine helicopter pilots, all trained to fight fires with their aircraft, sat on the ground.

While this was going on, Sheriff helicopter pilots were flying and begging for fire retardant drops by state and federal helicopters. Their begging was for naught.

State firefighting officials denied permission to the military pilots in the first 72 hours of the killer fires because state officials, led by Governor Gray Davis’ appointee, Andrea Tuttle, declared that the conditions didn’t “lend themselves” to the military’s firefighting abilities.

Andrea Tuttle heads up the California Department of Forestry (CDF). She has never worked in the field. She has a doctorate in Environmental Studies. Nonetheless, she was in charge, wearing a nice uniform, too.

According to published reports, three Navy helicopter units immediately set up to fight fires on Sunday morning, 12 hours after the fire began. They flew to the world’s most active firefighting base, that of the CDF at Ramona, 40 miles from downtown San Diego.

“The crews were told they didn’t have the department’s (CDF) permission to fight the fire,” the San Diego Union reported. The same rebuff occurred on Monday.

CDF has confirmed they didn’t permit the military pilots permission to fight the fires outside the City of San Diego.

San Diego County Supervisor Ron Roberts, after discussing the issues with CDF officials, called them “an absolute bunch of jerks.”

Roberts told the San Diego Union that CFD officials told him, “Navy pilots had to be certified by the CDF and that the state had to verify the helicopters’ maintenance records before allowing them to fly.”

In other words, the CDF has a union contract with its employees to protect their jobs. No outside forces can be used to fight fires, including volunteers, until certain protocols are followed—which, of course, means among other things, union rules.

CDF spokesman David Wheeler states: “Agencies use local resources, then turn to the county, then the state level before turning to the federal government, which is the last resort.” What he didn’t state is that even if the entire county is burning, as it was in San Diego on Sunday and Monday, the federals can’t fight until they are “certified” by union officials collecting pay as CDF officials.

Moreover, union rules prohibit state firefighting helicopter and plane pilots from fighting fires unless under orders from these very same union officials. If a pilot disregards those rules in an attempt to save lives and property, he can and will be fired from his job.

Here is the factual situation involved. Yes, fires were raging in the Los Angeles County’s Simi Valley and in San Bernardino County before the San Diego fires started. Yes, most state resources were already tied up in fighting those fires, as were firefighting units from San Diego working those fires under a mutual assistance pact.

There were no state air firefighting units available in San Diego while hundreds of homes were burning, except, of course, for the U.S. Navy units standing by—on their own volition—at the firefighting airport in Ramona. Additionally, six Marine Corps helicopters sat on the ground at Camp Pendleton, where, coincidently, they had just successfully fought a giant fire on the base. Two gargantuan Air Force C-130 firefighting lanes sat on the ground at the Navy’s Pt. Mugu Naval Station north of Santa Barbara, 50-minutes from the fires and two more sat on the ground at Colorado Springs.

The CDF did not request these federal planes and only allowed the Navy pilots to fly on Wednesday and Marine helicopters on Thursday, five days after the fire started. In the meanwhile, over 2000 homes were burned to the ground; an entire National Forest destroyed and 20 people, including one Northern California fireman, dead.

When Governor Arnold Schwarzenneger is sworn in as California’s new Governor, his first act should be to fire Andrea Tuttle and everyone he can at the CDF who was involved in denying military helicopter firefighting units to fly in San Diego’s firestorm.

Then, Governor Schwarzenneger should turn to Attorney General Bill Lockyer and order him to convene a criminal grand jury to investigate the CDF’s actions.

Criminal? Yes. People died because Navy and Marine pilots were ordered not to fly and fight killer fires because union officials needed to check maintenance records of Navy helicopters.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contreras' newest and third book, JALAPENOS, MEXICAN AMERICANS AND OTHER HOT STUFF: A PEOPLE'S CULTURAL IDENTITY is available at www.amazon.com, www.barnesandnoble.com, and www.iuniverse.com
E-mail: [email protected]

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Maybe California will learn from this. There is a thing called fire breaks and prescribed burns.
 
A full investigation should be done and appropriate action needs to be taken to prevent something like this from ever happening again.
 
Or maybe people who build in a fire dependent ecosystem for the scenery should have a defensible space around their homes? Fires are not all bad, and forest management should not all revolve around the few who build homes there.

As for the fighting of the fires, if it is decided to put the fire out it should be done as well as possible, SAFELY. If it is a bad day for the 'copters to fly they stay on the ground. The pilots life is not worth someone's home, same for the ground-based fire fighters. I do not support their being put in any more danger the necessary to save someone's home.
 
C.Hunter, I understand what you're saying, but...

Those houses were built in places that are not defensible. Some asshole decided to shoot a flare off during the worst possible fire conditions. Three helicopters wouldn't have amounted to a squirt of pee on a fire that was being driven by winds of 40-60 mph, if they even would have been able to fly. Folks are just looking for someone to blame besides themselves.

A terrible tragedy for sure, and perhaps a couple of screwed up policies have come to light. But the policies didn't contribute to the severity of this fire.

Oak
 
I have to agree with 1 pointer and Colo. Oak...a few more helicopters in the sky would not have stopped those fires. The houses were burned up because they were built where no house should ever be built (unless the owner wants to take the risk...and insurance companies shouldn't be required to insure these imbeciles.) Lives were lost because people didn't evacuate when they were told to. Sure it was a tragedy, but it surely shouldn't have been a surprise that something like this happened. What gets me is how this article says the entire national forest was destroyed. Just because it burned doesn't mean it was destroyed. Lack of fire is what will destroy a forest. The author obviously has no idea what he is talking about.
 
Do you guys all live in big cities? There are some real old communities in those hills, Big Bear (Holcomb Valley) was the first county seat of San Bernardino County back in the mid-1800s. Lake Arrowhead, Crestline and others have been there for a hundred years or more. Not all these homes are yuppy tree-huggers. Some of those folks have been born and raised in those mountains.

Real big of you guys to tell them they shouldn't live there.

So no towns should be in the forests, huh? No towns without hundreds of yards of firebreaks around them?

I agree with a lot your sentiments. But there are a lot of little towns all over this country that happen to be surrounded by forest. And a few more helicopters woud have been a huge, proportional increase. It's like 2 extra grains of powder isn't so much when it is a 90 gr charge of H-1000 in a .30-378. But 2 extra grains is a lot in a 4 gr charge of bullseye. 10 more choppers, when only 25 or even 50 is a big help. Yes, some homes were in area that were asking for trouble. But a lot of them were in towns. And they were not all tree-hugging yuppies. Forest mismanagement on the National level is perhaps more to blame?

Try a little less, holier-than-thou, I know more about the woods than the rest of the dummies in California attitude. Next time in could be Grants Pass or Cave Junction, Oregon, or Wenatchee, Washington or....
 
Well...I do feel sorry for some of those people. Many of them probably didn't realize their houses were in an area that would sooner or later burn up. Maybe somebody should have warned them, the local fire departments maybe? Or their insurance companies? Or the forest service? And maybe somebody did warn them. I'm more inclined to believe that they had been warned in some way. Isn't it common knowledge that forests burn? And that it is a natural phenomenon, no different than rain, snow, or wind? And if your house is in that forest it will burn too? I guess it's just hard for me to have a whole lot of sympathy for people ignorant enough to live in a place that IS going to burn, where it is not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when." Then they find one person to blame for this whole mess. Now that is just ridiculous. C. Hunter, it's like you said..."Forest mismanagement on the National level is perhaps more to blame?" It is too bad this had to happen, but hopefully some good will come out of it...and the best thing would be for the public to recognize that prescribed burns are necessary for the management of healthy forests, and to support the forest service and other timberland owners in doing these burns, even if it does mean the smoke may obsure their view of the mountains for a while.
 
Maybe, just maybe, one of these days people will wake up and stop building houses in solid fuel. But, I guess people just arent that smart.

What is so hard to grasp about fuel loading, homes built in horrible places, and fire frequencies? For Christ sake, it isnt rocket science.

IF, and its a big "IF", that fire would have been contained, what would it have mattered long-term? Nothing, because life there would have just continued, nothing would have been done to prevent the very same thing from happening next year or the next...

When you have heat, oxygen, and fuel...combined with 40-60mph winds, low RH, and an ignition source, guess what? expect a fire.
eek.gif


People never learn, just cry when the inevitable happens...and then look for a scapegoat.
rolleyes.gif


I'm in agreement, we dont need any lost lives...the misguided home owners, fire-fighters or otherwise. But, the conditions these people CHOOSE to live in, the choices we've made to supress fire, etc. sets the stage for tragedy. It sucks, but its reality.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-10-2003 10:05: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 
CH- I never said people should never live there. Heck, I may have a house in the hills someday. But, there is a risk involved, just as there is with living on the ocean (hurricanes) or along the river (floods). Mother Nature can still give us a spanking!
 
According to some of these posts, people should only live in concrete buildings in the middle of the country with a mile firebreak around them. I quess if a hurricane comes and blows my house away its my fault for living by the ocean. Or a tornado hits a home in Oklahoma, its there fault for living there. Shit happens guys. But these fires were started by arsonist and an idiot. Not nature. At least if they allowed the choppers to fly, they could have honestly said they did everything possible.
 
I don't give a shit where people live, but if they build their houses in a forest, and a forest fire burns them down, tough titty. I don't think anyone needs to be risking their life to save them. JMHO, of course.

Oak
 
Whiskers, tornado's are part of nature, hurricanes are a natural process, fires are also a natural process.

Funny how we dont have "tornado fighters", or "huricane fighters" to stop those natural processes, yet we seem to think we can bully nature using "fire-fighters".

Sorry, but fire is part of the natural cycle of forests and as natural as an earthquake, hurricane, etc. Once they get started, you cant and wont stop them with any amount of air support or ground pounders.

I'm totally with oak, tough shitzky if your house burns down, and not one single fire fighters life should be risked to save one under any circumstances. I'm really starting to question the validity of even bothering to fight fires.

I've attended enough funerals for fellow fire-fighters in my life...and I dont want to or need to attend any more.
 
I guess you supremely intelligent people (more so than us common folk) are right = tough titties to those who lose their homes or lives to fire, flood, earthquake, tidal waves, tornadoes, earthquakes, avalanches, lightning strikes, etc. Shouldn't have built there. Now where does Nature do nothing, so I can live there?
rolleyes.gif
(Sarcasm, in case you don't get it.)

Let's not even fight fires. There's a thought. Let's not dig out the rubble after an earthquake, or try to sandbag failing levies.... I didn't think firefighters were forced laborers. They choose to do what they do, and I am thankful that they do.

I fully agree that if you choose to live in any dangerous area, you are assuming that risk and if you can get insurance, that YOU should pay for it. If you don't get insurance, I shouldn't have to bail you out for your own stupidity. However, I don't think that eliminates them from consideration as human beings. Nor do I think that the people who buy a home in a subdivision 5 miles from the nearest state or national forest, but near vacant land that abuts to government land or forests can be considered in the same category as a yuppy who builds a house in an unsafe area with no consideration of possible consequences.
 
But what about my point? all i mean is why do they not use fire breaks and prescribed burns? i think someone with some intelligence would know when there is too much fuel on the ground to be a danger. I was pissed when i heard that the govt was asked to bail some of these guys out, thats what insurence is for.
 
Listen, I'm not saying I'm smarter than anybody here. The original post was about whether or not three helicopters could have stopped that fire and saved those homes. I said that I believed that they could not have, and the writer of that article was looking for someone to blame other than those who chose to live in that situation.

Firefighters are not paid to go into any situation, regardless of the circumstances. In fact, safety is practically beaten into their heads. I said that no house is worth risking a life in a dangerous situation like that, and I stand by it. That's what I meant when I said "tough". It's tough that they lost their homes, but blaming the authorities for not sending people or machinery into a dangerous situation is asinine.

I never said that we shouldn't have compassion for them as humans, because of their loss.

Oak
 
Cali said, "Now where does Nature do nothing, so I can live there?"

Let me ask you this:


I live in the freaking woods with brush clean up to my roof on a 60% slope where Santa anna winds tear through the area each year. We have 100 years of past history to look at that also shows numerous fires take place under such conditions, but since I dont have a degree in fire-science, I'm still not convinced that fire will happen. I live my life with my head in the sand...I'm shocked that RH's of 5%, coupled with massive fuel loads, and 60 MPH winds would put my house at risk. I dont want controlled burns because my viewshed will be impaired (despite the fact I cant see through the smog anyway). Prescribed fire is my biggest pet pieve anyway, I protest that like everything else.

You expect me to feel sorry for these people? I cant because thats the gawddamn reality of the conditions where these fires happened as well as the mentality.

You want to save your house? Good, heres a pulaski and a garden hose, knock yourself out.
 
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