60 Minutes Wyoming Green Energy Segment

Gus Chiggins said:
There's also a WSJ article today on the extraordinary amount of food energy the AI gods will require. Microsoft is using AI to help speed up approval of nuclear power plants, in order to power its AI.

I assume any other energy companies building new wind or solar farms also have an eye on the AI energy demand.

One estimate is that due to AI, by 2027 the electricity to power data centers will increase 50% over current use.

And as the AI chips become more autonomous powerful, even more energy will be needed to "cool" them to keep at acceptable tems which could cause an up to 100% increase in electricity consumption.

Sounds like we'll all be living inside the Matrix pretty soon.
Click to expand...
Maybe the Obama's are giving us a heads up on what's to come, so we can prepare?

Leave the World Behind https://g.co/kgs/Qk9dUR
 
Dsnow9 said:
I believe that after burying the old blades it was determined that it was going to cause a problem. Dig them all up and they are sitting above ground now until they can figure out how to dispose of them. I can’t find the source on that though right now.
Click to expand...
One would think with all the bullchit the solar people push, those buried parts would have made great fertilizer in a few years.
 
WYelker said:
Interesting they are building a massive wind farm without a single contract to sell the energy produced? What company can afford to invest that time/money/resources without any guarantee? The entire thing is a disaster.... FYI this is the power transmission line. These photos were of a rare area in the desert west of Baggs. This area was one big canyon that did not have a road (actually has a couple stunted growth aspen) it has a riparian area in the bottom... It was one of a few spots where a person could hike a mile and not hit a road. Now unfortunately there is a new huge road right in the middle of it all...
View attachment 306343View attachment 306344View attachment 306345
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure who build that road into that great elk, deer and antelope country, but I'm sure if the BLM wanted to build an adjacent access road for hunters nearby, they would run into a whole lot of environmentalist against the road. Isn't most of that land checker board?
 
There's a lot mixed facts, non-truths, and general inaccuracy in a lot of the replies/responses here.

There's a lot of things that make a "renewable" facility desirable from a market perspective - of course the obvious subsidies, a large initial fee for generation cost (instead of a volatile cost extracted input like nat gas/coal/nuclear), low labor cost (way less $ per mwh), maintenance/repairs can easily be done in stages without a multi-week/month "overhaul" extended duration outage.

The primary advantage not being understood/stated - the power generated from a renewable facility is primarily sold on the market "first" because of a major market advantage. Power is sold on 24 and 48 hour cylces, with generators bidding at intervals. If your input cost is essentially 0, your bid on the power can be "0" as the low bid matches the second lowest bid in terms of the power price. I.e. Market demand is 100 watts, renewable facilities bid 0 $ per watt for 35 watts (plus they get a CREDIT- called the production tax credit - for producing), so actual nominal "daily" production cost is negative, natural gas bids 6$ per watt for 35 watts, nuclear bids 8$ per watt for 35 watts, and coal bids 10$ per watt for 35 watts (140 watts total) then the coal generator gets entirely left out from selling power and nuclear sells only 30 of 35 watts they have available. It becomes really tough to compete when the renewable output might be 0 or as much as 100% of the grid in places like Texas on ideal wind days with low demand - so the traditional generators get on/off market days because of market conditions. There are no contracts with mines, pipelines, gas fields, railroads. or major labor unions. Essentially, renewable facilities don't really pay a penalty for variable generation output - there competitors do because of how the rules of the market game.

It's hard to really say/argue what the true long term best overall cost of a lot of things are over the life of the project, especially considering upgrading the system down the road. One thing is certain, we will never be "free" of fossil fuels or traditional mined product generation.
 
MtEngineer said:
There's a lot mixed facts, non-truths, and general inaccuracy in a lot of the replies/responses here.

There's a lot of things that make a "renewable" facility desirable from a market perspective - of course the obvious subsidies, a large initial fee for generation cost (instead of a volatile cost extracted input like nat gas/coal/nuclear), low labor cost (way less $ per mwh), maintenance/repairs can easily be done in stages without a multi-week/month "overhaul" extended duration outage.

The primary advantage not being understood/stated - the power generated from a renewable facility is primarily sold on the market "first" because of a major market advantage. Power is sold on 24 and 48 hour cylces, with generators bidding at intervals. If your input cost is essentially 0, your bid on the power can be "0" as the low bid matches the second lowest bid in terms of the power price. I.e. Market demand is 100 watts, renewable facilities bid 0 $ per watt for 35 watts (plus they get a CREDIT- called the production tax credit - for producing), so actual nominal "daily" production cost is negative, natural gas bids 6$ per watt for 35 watts, nuclear bids 8$ per watt for 35 watts, and coal bids 10$ per watt for 35 watts (140 watts total) then the coal generator gets entirely left out from selling power and nuclear sells only 30 of 35 watts they have available. It becomes really tough to compete when the renewable output might be 0 or as much as 100% of the grid in places like Texas on ideal wind days with low demand - so the traditional generators get on/off market days because of market conditions. There are no contracts with mines, pipelines, gas fields, railroads. or major labor unions. Essentially, renewable facilities don't really pay a penalty for variable generation output - there competitors do because of how the rules of the market game.

It's hard to really say/argue what the true long term best overall cost of a lot of things are over the life of the project, especially considering upgrading the system down the road. One thing is certain, we will never be "free" of fossil fuels or traditional mined product generation.
Click to expand...
Generally true if you're dealing in an organized market but, except for Energy Imbalance, the western grid is still primarily a bilateral market. That's why SM/C needs the transmission from Wyoming to the Las Vegas area to be able to deliver to the California market.
 
Westelker - W. Colorado said:
I'm not sure who build that road into that great elk, deer and antelope country, but I'm sure if the BLM wanted to build an adjacent access road for hunters nearby, they would run into a whole lot of environmentalist against the road. Isn't most of that land checker board?
Click to expand...
No this was way south of the checker board. This spot happens to be state land. But the roads were built across a bunch of BLM as well. There is checker board to the north but they have built this road down through Colorado and Utah as well. On the BLM they tried to follow existing utility right of ways old 2 tracks etc. It has been a mess of a project... This is a transmission line that is going to lead to thousand 10s of thousands of wind mills across WY, NW Colorado and Utah.
 
WYelker said:
Don't worry they have solved the wind blade recycle issue. They are excited for this solution...

They are taking the wind farm blades and burning them for energy to make concrete....

Yep that is great green energy. Burning Fiberglass has to be awesome for the environment.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cement...nd-power-faces-recycling-headache-11650967200
Click to expand...
This seems like a reasonable idea, albeit not ideal. Concrete does just appear in the back of the mixer by pixie fairy magic.
 
SAJ-99 said:
This seems like a reasonable idea, albeit not ideal. Concrete does just appear in the back of the mixer by pixie fairy magic.
Click to expand...
Making cement is not the most environmentally friendly process out there. You can always see a smogy haze billowing out of the Trident plant near Three Forks when passing though there on I 90.
 
BigHornRam said:
Making cement is not the most environmentally friendly process out there. You can always see a smogy haze billowing out of the Trident plant near Three Forks when passing though there on I 90.
Click to expand...
Now powered by solar panels 🤣
 
WYelker said:
They are taking the wind farm blades and burning them for energy to make concrete....

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cement...nd-power-faces-recycling-headache-11650967200
Click to expand...
They are burning the ground up blades to make clinker as part of the process to make cement. They use old tires for the energy source to burn the fiberglass blades.😁

Edit. They are burning the blades to run the kilns.

"Cement manufacturing is one of the largest sources of carbon-dioxide emissions. Cement’s key ingredient clinker is made in kilns that burn and mix ingredients in an intense 1,450-Celsius heat. Kilns typically burn conventional fossil fuels, but companies are increasingly using waste such as plastics and car tires—and old wind-turbine blades—instead. They say incinerating waste keeps it from going to landfill sites and lowers emissions."

datis-inc.com

What is Cement Clinker? | Datis Export Group

If you wanted to know the answer to What is Cement Clinker? You may find this article useful. Datis Export Group is a supplier and exporter of Cement Clinker.
datis-inc.com datis-inc.com
 
Last edited:
BigHornRam said:
Making cement is not the most environmentally friendly process out there. You can always see a smogy haze billowing out of the Trident plant near Three Forks when passing though there on I 90.
Click to expand...
No doubt. It requires a ton of energy. Concrete and steel both. Those two are probably the biggest reason why coal can't go away completely. There are no great answers to our need for energy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

publichunter1
2021 Wyoming and Idaho Elk Success
2
Replies
38
Views
4K
Parker35
P
M
Oil Was Central in Decision to Shrink Bears Ears Monument, Emails Show
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
jryoung
jryoung
406LIFE
The Highs and Lows of Hunting: 2018 MT Success Story
2
Replies
21
Views
3K
fallfreak
F
Khunter
Trump JR woos Sportsmen, covets Interior Secretary job
2
Replies
32
Views
8K
dannyb278
dannyb278
Big Fin
Federal Government right to own land
Replies
16
Views
6K
Straight Arrow
Straight Arrow
Sitka Gear Turkey Tool Belt

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
111,276
Messages
1,953,238
Members
35,107
Latest member
mttedoc

Share this page

Back
Top