Wyoming Upcoming Elk Draw Results

[WapitiBob]

There will be no "sneak peak" this year. Although the Dept is still using the State Auditor for refund warrants, they have asked the Auditors Office to hold off on posting the warrant list until after the dept posts the Elk results online.

Every party has a pooper and someone at the dept got their panties in a wad because we could back door the results.

 

[gwhunter]

Please reread my earlier post. The Type 1 tags have been able to hunt the archery season in September in the past!

So then it is less about giving the general license holders an unfair shake and more about the fact that we already had a tag that would allow anyone with a type 1 in that zone to already hunt the archery season if they wanted? Whereas with the current proposed season it will make it so the type 1 holders would not be allowed to hunt the archery if they wanted and vice-versa for type 9 with rifle. Thereby creating more restrictions and segregation among the hunters, units, and seasons?

I think I've got it now.

 

[BuzzH]

You got it 100% right...I'm against the type-9's because it creates an either or situation.

One of the great things about Wyomings tags, is the flexibility it gives to those that draw...long seasons, multiple weapon choices, etc.

Pushing everyone into a box and taking choice away is not what I want...at least not yet.

 

[gwhunter]

Buzz, so what would be the motivation for someone to want to propose a type-9 tag like you said the 2 people at the meeting wanted? Is it solely to make it a more exclusive hunt and limit hunter numbers in that zone for the archery hunt? Is the zone really that crowded in the early season? Were these guys strictly archery hunters with no intentions of hunting with a rifle? Seems to me that if I were to strike out in the archery hunt and it was convenient for me to come back for the rifle hunt (or if I lived near that zone) that is what I would want to happen. That would give me the greatest flexibility and opportunity.

Growing up in Michigan it was always that way for the whitetail deer hunt (for the most part). You would buy your license and then be able to hunt from Oct 1 - Jan 1 for a buck as long as you were using the correct weapon for that time of the year. If you were a hardcore archery enthusiast you either skipped the november rifle hunt or you just hunted with your bow during the rifle hunt (I know some people who did use their bows). For the majority of my life I had at least 1 of my buck tags filled (we were allowed 2) by the end of the first archery hunt so the pressure was reduced to hunt during the 2 week long rifle season. But is was nice knowing that I could always fill my tag during the rifle hunt if I wanted. I guess all I'm trying to say is that the cultural differences are unique across the different states; especially when only separated by a few hundred miles sometimes.

 

[Kiwi]

I applied for a type 9 special WY elk tag as my first choice. 10 days bow hunting and that's it, no pressure

 

[gwhunter]

Kiwi, but would you be opposed to have just purchased a type-1 tag in the zone you wanted and just made travel arrangements to only come hunt the archery season for your hunt and then not worry what goes on in the rifle season? I'm saying this would only hold true if the zone you applied for/wanted to hunt didn't offer zone 9 tags. Would having the license allow you to hunt during the october season turn you off from putting in for that tag if all you wanted it for was the archery season?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, so what would be the motivation for someone to want to propose a type-9 tag like you said the 2 people at the meeting wanted? Is it solely to make it a more exclusive hunt and limit hunter numbers in that zone for the archery hunt? Is the zone really that crowded in the early season? Were these guys strictly archery hunters with no intentions of hunting with a rifle? Seems to me that if I were to strike out in the archery hunt and it was convenient for me to come back for the rifle hunt (or if I lived near that zone) that is what I would want to happen. That would give me the greatest flexibility and opportunity.

The reason for type-9s is based largely on increased drawing odds for those that want to hunt exclusively with archery equipment in the better areas of the state. Another big part is that archery hunters seem to be very sensitive to any kind of competition with other hunters, including themselves.

I can tell you that in the areas I hunt, I don't want a type-9 season, and I have had the ear of the commission and local biologists for a couple years on it.

There were several of us that testified in front of the commission and outlined how the type-9 tags take away season length, flexibility, opportunity, etc. It was well received testimony and the Chairman of the Commission thanked us all personally for bringing it to their attention.

Also, by adding 50 more type-9 tags in unit 11, its going to increase elk harvest and greatly increase the pressure in rifle season, as the type-1 quota is going to stay at 150. Plus, where you maybe had 15-25 of the 150 type-1's being filled in Archery season, reducing the rifle hunters by the same amount, now you'll have all 150 out there.

IMO, the type-9's are a selfish "want" by the archery hunters, just a tool to increase their draw odds. But like I said, when they bother to show up at meetings, make recommendations, etc. its pretty hard for me to oppose them. I'm of the opinion that if 99.99% are going to sit on the sidelines and whine after the fact, you get what you deserve.

Like I said, its not too late, but if you feel strongly one way or the other, you better get with the program.

 

[LCH]

Buzz, so what would be the motivation for someone to want to propose a type-9 tag like you said the 2 people at the meeting wanted? Is it solely to make it a more exclusive hunt and limit hunter numbers in that zone for the archery hunt? Is the zone really that crowded in the early season? Were these guys strictly archery hunters with no intentions of hunting with a rifle? Seems to me that if I were to strike out in the archery hunt and it was convenient for me to come back for the rifle hunt (or if I lived near that zone) that is what I would want to happen. That would give me the greatest flexibility and opportunity.

Growing up in Michigan it was always that way for the whitetail deer hunt (for the most part). You would buy your license and then be able to hunt from Oct 1 - Jan 1 for a buck as long as you were using the correct weapon for that time of the year. If you were a hardcore archery enthusiast you either skipped the november rifle hunt or you just hunted with your bow during the rifle hunt (I know some people who did use their bows). For the majority of my life I had at least 1 of my buck tags filled (we were allowed 2) by the end of the first archery hunt so the pressure was reduced to hunt during the 2 week long rifle season. But is was nice knowing that I could always fill my tag during the rifle hunt if I wanted. I guess all I'm trying to say is that the cultural differences are unique across the different states; especially when only separated by a few hundred miles sometimes.

Look at how much $$$ states like Colorado make by splitting up seasons and selling specific tags for each. That's why F&G would be for it. As far as individual hunters, if they plan on only bowhunting anyway, it will likely give them better odds at hunting that LQ area. I'll be tickled if I draw the tag, but I do agree that moving towards separate seasons, like Colorado, is not in the best interest of the majority of Wyoming hunters..

Edit - Was typing at the same time as Buzz..

 

[Kiwi]

I wouldn't be opposed to a tag like that. I'm just happy to get a tag that allows early archery and then I'm not worried about what happens later. That said, I'd also happy with a type 1 as it gives me more options even if it starts a little later.

To be honest, I'm just excited to be able to hunt WY! If they give me any tag I'll be grateful

PS I didn't know that type 9 were controversial. Thanks BuzzH for this info.

 

[gwhunter]

PS I didn't know that type 9 were controversial. Thanks BuzzH for this info.

^ This x2!

 

[BuzzH]

Another consideration that I brought up in testimony at the commission meeting, is why does Wyoming have to be like Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, etc.?

By NOT splitting the season and creating an either/or hunting season, Wyoming is making their tags more desirable as it allows the 2 weapon hunter to participate in both seasons. That creates additional value to a Wyoming tag vs. those states that have either or.

I think with the competition for hunters between the states, I want Wyoming tags to sell out every year. To do that, the more opportunity and options you can create to attract hunters to buy tags/hunt in Wyoming the better.

 

[Z Barebow]

RE: Type 9. It seems to me like it is just a different approach by each state. It comes down to is it the priority to draw a unit, regardless of weapon. Or is it about diversifying opportunity within a unit. (In turn increasing revenue) I come from a state where they choose to place the priority of weapon choice. It is what I grew up on and used to it.

I can see your point Buzz, especially as a resident. If I drew a type 1 tag and knew I had X # of weeks to hunt, it would be a great tag. But I would be willing to bet most NR's who pull type 1 tag don't choose a weapon. Unless you live just across the state border. I would be willing to bet most type 1 tag holders don't take two weeks off to hunt the archery season and then return for rifle season.

I view a type 9 tag more so as a non resident opportunity. (Even though R's and NR's can receive) for reasons stated above. As a means to generate more revenue, I would much rather see increased type 9 opportunities vs the reg draw/special draw bs. Biologically, archers do not have a significant impact. (With avg success around 15%). Obviously rifle hunting has much greater success.

As far as separating opportunity, the reg/special tags have already done that. Genie is out of the bottle. (I don't like it, but we are kidding ourselves if we think it is going away).

As far as drawing odds, currently type 9 tags are harder to draw (At least for NR's. Look at units 38, 39 and 40. (Those were the first ones I looked at). In each of those instances, a type 9 tag takes 1-2 points more to draw than a type 1. Why is that? Supply and demand. IMHO. Very few type 9 units available. I suspect type 9 tags are more in demand by NR's on a percentage basis of applicants vs residents. Why would a multi weapon resident want to restrict themselves to an archery only license? Not many would is my guess and draw odds seem to show it.

Should there be type 9 tags in every LE unit? No. Some units are made for rifle hunting. Wide open terrain, seasonal locations, etc.

As far as type 1 tag having value in comparison to other states, I agree. I agree that all WYO tags have value. As far keeping units type 1 to retain the value and keep the tags being sold, MT general tag holders have 11 weeks with 2 weapons and they still have leftovers. NM and CO have no issues with license sales.

I guess I know my bow is a limited range weapon. My odds of success are inherently less. I accept and even embrace that fact. Having an opportunity to pull mythically pull a tag a little more often isn't out of line. IMHO. I am not trying to impart my views on you Buzz, just trying to have you look at a little different viewpoint.

Good luck this fall Buzz. (Although you don't seem to need any luck! You seem to do just fine.

 

[BuzzH]

Z Barebow,

Some valid points, but many of your points simply aren't true.

Regarding type-9's raising revenue...I don't believe that's going to be the case. The number of NR elk tags is capped at 7250 for NR's. Any additional type-9's will just mean a cut in the number of general tags issued to get NR's to 7250, so revenue wise, there is not going to be an increase there. I question that there will be much, if any, revenue gained from the Resident side of the draw, as most R's that don't pull a LQ tag, they just pick up a general. I'm not seeing this as a revenue generator, and that argument falls flat.

I'm also not buying the archery hunters have no impact to the resource, that line may have been true in 1960, but not today. The harvest rates for type-9 tags are pretty high, and the biologists are predicting 25% success. Of course, that doesn't include wounding lose, or perhaps even higher success.

In an area like 11, adding an additional 50 tags and filling 25% of them is most certainly going to have an impact on the resource. An additional 12-14 elk, most likely most, if not all, of them bulls, is going to have an impact. It will also create a more crowded type-1 hunt with all 150 of those permit holders hitting only rifle season. Also, many hunters will likely kill any bull they see during archery season, as they know they cant come back and rifle hunt later. I expect at least a 25% success rate, but I wouldn't be surprised if the success rate was closer to 40%.

There is already hunters griping that there are too many tags issued in 11, too many hunters in the field, and lack of quality...adding an additional 50 type-9 tags will NOT help that situation at all, and will 100% make the rifle hunt more crowded. It may also make a more crowded archery hunt, as many R's that know their only chance for the year at an elk will be during archery season, they will spend more days in the field, and likely all 50 will hunt. If they had a choice, many likely wouldn't spend as many days or effort in archery season if they know they can pick up their rifles later.

IMO, this type-9 push is 90% to force an either or situation brought on by the archery only crowd to increase their draw odds in LQ units and to limit those hunters that choose to hunt with both a rifle and a bow. The hardcore archery guys have very little use for those that choose to hunt with both archery and firearms. Their way of forcing hunters to make a choice...which, IMO, is not good for those that don't want to be forced into choosing one weapon over another.

At the rate we're all losing opportunity and choices in hunting, I don't see much upside to the type-9's...

I have thought about the type-9 tags and looked at it from all angles, I pick up a bow once in a while myself.

Good luck to you this fall as well.

 

[LCH]

My $0.02.. Take it for what it's worth.

Crowding - There were a TON of people in 11 last year on the opener.. but most I talked to were deer hunters. I don't understand, if they are going to limit deer season to 1 week in Area 75, why have it start the same day as elk season? Holding that season, say, the second week of October would alleviate a lot of hunting pressure on elk opener, and would still be far enough out from the rut that harvest would be unlikely to increase.

Draw odds - Areas 38, 39, and 40 have rifle openers on 10/15, so if you want to hunt the rut there, you need to hunt archery. Area 11 has rifle opener 10/1, enabling you to hunt rutting elk with a rifle. I doubt Type 9's would be more difficult to draw here.

Type 9's - I think these would probably be less controversial if they didn't exclude Type 1 holders from hunting during the same season. As ZBarebow said, most nonresidents are unable to travel to Wyoming twice in one season.. But, with rifle opener on 10/1 in Area 11, the best 2 weeks are likely to be the last week of archery and the first week of rifle, doable in 1 trip. I think replacing Type 1's with Type 9's might make more sense if the elk herd was under objective, since harvest rates tend to be lower, but that's not the case in the Medicine Bow.

 

[Rooster52]

I would never apply for an archery only tag. one of the great things about hunting Wyoming is the choice of weapons and seasons on your tag.I have hunted antelope with my muzzleloader and then switch to my rifle in the same unit and season.This year I am going to start my elk season September 1st with my bow.

 

[Khunter]

I would never apply for an archery only tag. one of the great things about hunting Wyoming is the choice of weapons and seasons on your tag.I have hunted antelope with my muzzleloader and then switch to my rifle in the same unit and season.This year I am going to start my elk season September 1st with my bow.

Nearly 50/50 draw odds say I may do the same!

 

[Z Barebow]

Thanks guys.

"Regarding type-9's raising revenue...I don't believe that's going to be the case. The number of NR elk tags is capped at 7250 for NR's. Any additional type-9's will just mean a cut in the number of general tags issued to get NR's to 7250, so revenue wise, there is not going to be an increase there. I question that there will be much, if any, revenue gained from the Resident side of the draw, as most R's that don't pull a LQ tag, they just pick up a general. I'm not seeing this as a revenue generator, and that argument falls flat."

You are more spot on than my point. The NR cap in essence "robs Peter to pay Paul". IE If you add opportunity somewhere for an NR, you take it away elsewhere.

"I'm also not buying the archery hunters have no impact to the resource, that line may have been true in 1960, but not today." I didn't say no impact. I stated archers to not have a significant impact. I was trying to make the point from a biological perspective, rifle hunters have and will always be the primary population management tool. (Unless a G&F issues 5-10 times more archery tags than rifle tags).

Some guys treat there bows like short range rifles. I still consider my bow a primitive, short range weapon (Shooting at 40 yards or less). My satisfaction comes from the intimacy between me and the animal. I accept the limitation that even if I have several close encounters, the statistical odds of being killing are against me. (I feel like I am a curmudgeon with this outlook.)-Off topic. I'll try and turn the wheel back!

Buzz- I think you might be generous with your success numbers for archers, but I don't have detailed data to support my point other than the latest elk harvest report (2013).

LCH- You point on Oct 15th start date is taken. I have hunted on 2 tags in WYO and I have always planned my hunts up until the start of rifle. (Depending upon unit Sept 25th or Oct 1) Always been my choice to leave rifle at home. Like I noted above, my joy is not solely dictated on whether I kill an animal. I apply for and purchase an opportunity. That is all. (Same when I hunted MT general tag)

I'll admit my bias is from my own experiences and what I prefer. (I still like to think I have the 5000' view of things!) Not trying to make WYO like state X. (If I am a resident and I approve of the status quo, that approach automatically pisses me off too)

Derail off topic again. Even though I don't care for the reg/special tag structure, it is still preferable to NM approach. At least WYGOA and the special tag doesn't exclude the DIY hunter. (Pretending to care about lunch pail hunter (Unlike NM which explicitly allocates licenses based upon whether a hunter hires an outfitter or not) as well as subdividing not only weapons, but weapon seasons. I have hunted NM 3 times, but giving me (DIY) a sliver and a theoretical chance isn't enough for me (anymore) to ante' up app fess for the statistical possibility to purchase a license.

I love Wyoming and the people who live there.I will keep coming back, however I can acquire a tag. (Or afford to!) I'll play by the rules in the sandbox of whatever state I want to hunt.. Hope to see you this fall! (Or summer scouting mission!)

 

[1_pointer]

Z- I think the table you posted is not quite saying what you want it to say. Archery hunters could be 100% successful and still only be 8.49% of the total harvest...

 

[BuzzH]

The success rates in the current type-9 areas are much higher than the statewide average...some up to, IIRC, 40%.

 

[Z Barebow]

Understood 1 pointer and Buzz.

I am basing success percentages because I have only hunted general units in MT and WYO. And since WYO does not break out general tag holders whom purchase archery tag, it impossible to calculate overall archery success% in WYO.(Or even success of archers in gen units vs LE) whether it be type 1 or type 9) Most states have around 10-12% success for archers in general units.

I think the previous screen shot somewhat validates Buzz's point as well as mine. (IE I am saying type 9 license holders are more likely to be NR's and more resident archers are likely not as "committed" to a bow when they can easily return with rifle. Note the increased success percentage for NR archery).

There may be outliers in type 9 success/lack of success archery %, but statewide 2013 avg was 23.8%.

Not familiar with IIRC or what it is.