Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[tzone]

I usually hunt area 21 in Wyoming for elk and the people suing those 4 Missouri guys for corner crossing (Iron Bar Holdings LLC) has a pretty big chunk of private right on the west side of the continental divide. I've considered asking for permission to trespass during archery elk season, but I figure if they're suing those guys for $7 million in damages then they may be pretty crappy when it comes to allowing trespassing, even if it's on foot. I'll still reach out but I'm not expecting a positive outcome.

Just cut the corner. It's legal.

 

[Irrelevant]

The Hunters, the Landowner and the Ladder That Triggered a Wyoming Showdown

Checkerboard pattern of public and private land creates perplexing access issue

www.wsj.com

 

[Oak]

The Hunters, the Landowner and the Ladder That Triggered a Wyoming Showdown

Checkerboard pattern of public and private land creates perplexing access issue

www.wsj.com

"He noted that he runs livestock on it in addition to letting military veterans and others hunt there, creating a safety issue if there is unregulated access."

Wait until Fred learns about public lands.

 

[Irrelevant]

I really only shared for the pics, which were stellar, and the flying in and out desc. Not a lot of new info.

 

[thusby]

"He noted that he runs livestock on it in addition to letting military veterans and others hunt there, creating a safety issue if there is unregulated access."

Wait until Fred learns about public lands.

I would love to know the statistic on how many livestock are accidentally shot by hunters. That one was thrown at me by a rancher on blm 2 years ago. I looked in my hands and told him that I would have a very hard time killing his cattle with 6 shot out of a 28 gauge.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Hunt Talk in the NYT. Who woulda thunk it!?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/26/business/hunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html?fbclid=IwAR1LSqMVHja2493UfgDV8i4dyTGGIzAghyJt2l6UyLTd_NYN3IQN1Y6bPmA#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16695017885983&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2022%2F11%2F26%2Fbusiness%2Fhunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Hunt Talk in the NYT. Who woulda thunk it!?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/26/business/hunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html?fbclid=IwAR1LSqMVHja2493UfgDV8i4dyTGGIzAghyJt2l6UyLTd_NYN3IQN1Y6bPmA#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16695017885983&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2022%2F11%2F26%2Fbusiness%2Fhunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html

@BuzzH nice work, lotta bitching from the peanut gallery around here some times but you advocated for public lands in a NY Times article.

Thank you

 

[BuzzH]

@BuzzH nice work, lotta bitching from the peanut gallery around here some times but you advocated for public lands in a NY Times article.

Thank you

Thanks, but it just needed to be done. I really feel like anyone else that uses and appreciates public lands would do the same thing.

The thanks should be reserved for the few thousand that donated to the criminal case. Without that, there would be no federal case.

 

[elkduds]

Hunt Talk in the NYT. Who woulda thunk it!?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/26/business/hunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html?fbclid=IwAR1LSqMVHja2493UfgDV8i4dyTGGIzAghyJt2l6UyLTd_NYN3IQN1Y6bPmA#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16695017885983&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2022%2F11%2F26%2Fbusiness%2Fhunting-wyoming-elk-mountain-access.html

Article refers to "2000 pound bull elk" there. Editor!

And much appreciation to @BuzzH for his ongoing public land advocacy. We could all take a lesson. Then go after 1 ton elk.

 

[Cornell Cowboy]

It looks like Elk Mountain Ranch has added a couple Laramie guys to their expert witness list.

Expert: Corner crossing would diminish ranch values ‘at least 30%’ - WyoFile

Real estate agent says he would devalue Elk Mountain Ranch by about $9.39 million if a court deems corner crossing legal.

wyofile.com

 

[Addicting]

It looks like Elk Mountain Ranch has added a couple Laramie guys to their expert witness list.

Expert: Corner crossing would diminish ranch values ‘at least 30%’ - WyoFile

Real estate agent says he would devalue Elk Mountain Ranch by about $9.39 million if a court deems corner crossing legal.

wyofile.com

Wonder how he got paid for the use of his name and quotes.

 

[338win]

It looks like Elk Mountain Ranch has added a couple Laramie guys to their expert witness list.

Expert: Corner crossing would diminish ranch values ‘at least 30%’ - WyoFile

Real estate agent says he would devalue Elk Mountain Ranch by about $9.39 million if a court deems corner crossing legal.

wyofile.com

As if we needed more confirmation that these people are doche bags.

 

[Nicoli7153]

The real estate people overvalued it and he paid it, not our problem.

Maybe the brokers should refund him the commission they earned on the overvaluation

 

[Dougfirtree]

It looks like Elk Mountain Ranch has added a couple Laramie guys to their expert witness list.

Expert: Corner crossing would diminish ranch values ‘at least 30%’ - WyoFile

Real estate agent says he would devalue Elk Mountain Ranch by about $9.39 million if a court deems corner crossing legal.

wyofile.com

It's so frustrating because it's not relevant (or shouldn't be). The whole argument is that we've always had the right to cross corners, even if it wasn't recognized. That value they're talking about never existed.

 

[TOGIE]

It's so frustrating because it's not relevant (or shouldn't be). The whole argument is that we've always had the right to cross corners, even if it wasn't recognized. That value they're talking about never existed.

yeah. they should instead be suing the real estate agents, maybe even the one they're using as an expert witness, for duping them into overpaying for a property.

it'll be interesting to see how the arguments play out in court.

 

[BuzzH]

"Attorneys for Elk Mountain Ranch owner Fred Eshelman last week designated real estate agent James Rinehart of Laramie as an expert witness in Eshelman’s civil suit against the hunters. Eshelman alleges the Missouri men trespassed on his 22,045-acre Carbon County ranch in 2020 and 2021."

I've dealt with and interacted with James Rinehart several times in Wyoming. At one point he was a BHA member...guess he changed his mind. He alleges he's an "avid hunter".

He asked me for help on creating a shed hunting season statewide, which I didn't support. His reason was not because of how it may impact wildlife, no it was all about him. He winters south and complained to me that all the antlers were gone by the time he comes back north.

He also wanted me to support lowering the bull moose permits in unit 38, where he guides Governors tag moose hunters. He wanted to reduce the moose permits because he was having a harder time finding his clients big bulls. I shot that crap down right fast at the season setting meeting. I said, "If you're worried about bull quality, maybe we should cut Governors tags in that unit, why just cut the average guy?" That ended that discussion right quick.

My question to Rinehart is, "So, what was the price Fred paid for your soul, to gaff your fellow WY Resident sportsmen and all public land access advocates.".

I hope it was worth it because he is getting lit up by some heavy hitters in Wyoming over it.

Breaksrunner, who used to post on this board made a statement years ago that rings so true, "There are 2 things that will make people do things they normally wouldn't, money and elk."

That applies 110% to Rinehart...typical real estate agent, profit over ethics, morals, and your fellow outdoor recreationist/hunter.

Nice work James!

 

[Nicoli7153]

"Attorneys for Elk Mountain Ranch owner Fred Eshelman last week designated real estate agent James Rinehart of Laramie as an expert witness in Eshelman’s civil suit against the hunters. Eshelman alleges the Missouri men trespassed on his 22,045-acre Carbon County ranch in 2020 and 2021."

I've dealt with and interacted with James Rinehart several times in Wyoming. At one point he was a BHA member...guess he changed his mind. He alleges he's an "avid hunter".

He asked me for help on creating a shed hunting season statewide, which I didn't support. His reason was not because of how it may impact wildlife, no it was all about him. He winters south and complained to me that all the antlers were gone by the time he comes back north.

He also wanted me to support lowering the bull moose permits in unit 38, where he guides Governors tag moose hunters. He wanted to reduce the moose permits because he was having a harder time finding his clients big bulls. I shot that crap down right fast at the season setting meeting. I said, "If you're worried about bull quality, maybe we should cut Governors tags in that unit, why just cut the average guy?" That ended that discussion right quick.

My question to Rinehart is, "So, what was the price Fred paid for your soul, to gaff your fellow WY Resident sportsmen and all public land access advocates.".

I hope it was worth it because he is getting lit up by some heavy hitters in Wyoming over it.

Breaksrunner, who used to post on this board made a statement years ago that rings so true, "There are 2 things that will make people do things they normally wouldn't, money and elk."

That applies 110% to Rinehart...typical real estate agent, profit over ethics, morals, and your fellow outdoor recreationist/hunter.

Nice work James!

Let's see if the court agrees that he has expert status. In criminal court it allows for opinion testimony by a witness, not sure if the same applies in civil court.

 

[rogerthat]

I fail to see how this is any sort of valid argument. A loss in perceived value due to an incorrect perception of that value. That’s not a taking of private property rights when they never had the right in the first place which is the uia argument in the first place.

 

[Nicoli7153]

I fail to see how this is any sort of valid argument. A loss in perceived value due to an incorrect perception of that value. That’s not a taking of private property rights when they never had the right in the first place which is the uia argument in the first place.

We should be happy if that's the best they've got, seems like a looser.

 

[BuzzH]

I fail to see how this is any sort of valid argument. A loss in perceived value due to an incorrect perception of that value. That’s not a taking of private property rights when they never had the right in the first place which is the uia argument in the first place.

Agreed, plus as far as I know, he has ZERO qualifications to appraise a dog house, let alone a large ranch.

Its interesting how this case has brought out the true colors and motives of some people. Largely its confirmed what I already knew about most, this is no surprise to me with Rinehart...its always about him.

When you have no integrity to start with, its probably very easy to just take the money and not care about the friends you're losing. He's the type of guy that's only your friend when there's something in it for him. He has a reputation of that being the case.

I've always put family and friends at the top of my list.