WY Wilderness Rule ?

[Trigger50]

Has there ever been any effort to overturn WY's unfair wilderness rule for non-residents ??? Last yr after rifle hunting reg national forest for 3 days and not seeing a single elk...I sat on a ridge looking across the valley and glassed 2 groups of elk containing 6 diff bulls in the wilderness area. I love hunting WY... but it doesn't seem fair since non-residents fund the majority of the G & F. Hey Buzz...whats your thoughts? Thankfully my WY friend was able to join me the last day of rifle season & I shot a cow in the wilderness.

 

[dk17hmr]

Not that I'm aware of.

I don't know about majority, I have to question that.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

NRs put in about 75% to 80% of the license fees the G&F gets in a given year (PPs, Conservation Stamp, etc.), but it's nowhere near that huge percentage of the overall G&F budget. The wilderness law in WY for NRs has been challenged in Federal Court and it was ruled that the individual states can decide how they want to control NRs as far as tag numbers, fees, and anything else pertaining to hunting/fishing within their borders, including that rule that pertains to Federal lands that are overseen by the USFS.

 

[Big Fin]

I don't know about majority, I have to question that.

From this WY G&F document linked here - http://legisweb.state.wy.us/InterimCommittee/2015/06WGFDFundingPresentation.pdf



78% of funding comes from hunting and fishing licenses, of which 72% is from Non-residents and 28% is from residents. Similar to many other western states.

 

[Big Fin]

Has there ever been any effort to overturn WY's unfair wilderness rule for non-residents ??? ..... I love hunting WY... but it doesn't seem fair since non-residents fund the majority of the G & F. Hey Buzz...whats your thoughts?

Fair, or not, Baldwin v. Commissioner, a US Supreme Court case says a state can do whatever they want to NR hunters, in terms of pricing or allocation of opportunity.

 

[MThuntr]

Is there a progressive thinking representative in Wyoming willing to push this in legislature? Would an online petition help or would it fall on deaf ears?

It seems outfitters are a pretty powerful group in most states and they would be the ones to lose if allowed so I'm sure promoting non-resident hunters using/camping in wilderness would be squashed relatively quickly

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Is there a progressive thinking representative in Wyoming willing to push this in legislature? Would an online petition help or would it fall on deaf ears?

It seems outfitters are a pretty powerful group in most states and they would be the ones to lose if allowed so I'm sure promoting non-resident hunters using/camping in wilderness would be squashed relatively quickly

There are some residents that don't think it's fair, but with the backing of outfitters and more than likely a vast majority of voters in the state I think we would be wasting our time trying to get it overturned. The simpler way is to have some Wyoming friends that hunt so they can take you in the wilderness for free if/when the time arises!

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

Wyoming as state seems to act pretty directly in their legislature towards promoting their own economy. Its a government made of ranchers and mineral extraction interests and not a lot else. It turns out a lot of ranchers are also outfitters so the state will act in their interest. I'm sure residents would argue it allows them to make more of a general tag especially if they have stock.

 

[Schaaf]

If I remember correctly Rinella brought this up on his podcast with Gov. Meade. He said half jokingly (also half serious) that we needed to get this fixed. I don't believe it was by accident that Meade stayed pretty quiet on the question and was quick to change the topic.

 

[Big Fin]

As much as I dislike the Wyoming rule and the blatant pandering it represents, I would rather have them continue with their generous allocation of tags to non-residents, even if I have to bring a resident with me to hunt some wilderness areas, as compared to being able to hunt wilderness areas by myself, yet have the tag allocation cut to what we in MT provide to non-residents; "up to 10%."

 

[Trigger50]

Well put Randy. I love hunting WY, don't get me wrong. I thought I would spice things up a bit this week on Hunttalk and open the dialog on a noteworthy topic. It was hard to sit at the trailhead in my vehicle watching residents hunters head out knowing that I cant hunt there. Thank goodness that I have a friend in WY. Its just weird to ask..."will you take me hunting?" haha

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Excellent point Randy and just one of many reasons why I think Wyoming is the best and why I'm out there every year chasing critters with several resident friends.

 

[mhungerford]

Well put Randy. I love hunting WY, don't get me wrong. I thought I would open the dialog on a noteworthy topic. It was hard to sit at the trailhead in my vehicle watching residents hunters head out knowing that I cant hunt there. Thank goodness that I have a friend in WY. Its just weird to ask..."will you take me hunting?" haha

 

[MThuntr]

There are some residents that don't think it's fair, but with the backing of outfitters and more than likely a vast majority of voters in the state I think we would be wasting our time trying to get it overturned. The simpler way is to have some Wyoming friends that hunt so they can take you in the wilderness for free if/when the time arises!

I should familiarize this law better I thought it was a "hire an outfitter or no go situation".

 

[JWP58]

Life aint fair and the world is mean.

There are plenty of animals outside of wilderness areas...plenty of greenies too.

 

[Schaaf]

I should familiarize this law better I thought it was a "hire an outfitter or no go situation".

As far as I know it is an outfitter or resident accompany you. The good news is I'm sure there has to be at least 1 Hunt Talker who would be willing to drag you into the wilderness.

 

[dk17hmr]

I thought recently the licence revenue number was closer to 65% of the budget with about 2/3 of that being from non residents. Doesn't matter either way.

The only way your going to get this looked at seriously is if the G&F loses enough money from their budget to step back and see what happened. For that to happen you will have to round up enough non residents to not put in for Wyoming. You aren't likely to get enough resident support to make a wave.

 

[LopeHunter]

The heartburn I have is I can spend the next two weeks hiking around alone, with no guide, in the same exact terrain as in a few months for me to hunt requires I have a guide. I can fish there. I can bird watch. Take pictures.

So, is not a safety issue.

Is merely a full-employment guide welfare initiative. Bernie Sanders would be proud of you Wyoming. Feel the Bern.

 

[BuzzH]

Has there ever been any effort to overturn WY's unfair wilderness rule for non-residents ??? Last yr after rifle hunting reg national forest for 3 days and not seeing a single elk...I sat on a ridge looking across the valley and glassed 2 groups of elk containing 6 diff bulls in the wilderness area. I love hunting WY... but it doesn't seem fair since non-residents fund the majority of the G & F. Hey Buzz...whats your thoughts? Thankfully my WY friend was able to join me the last day of rifle season & I shot a cow in the wilderness.

Here is what I have been consistent about regarding this law.

I think its perhaps the second most discriminatory law regarding access to public wildlife...with the most being the AK guide requirements for species. I also don't like that the law was put in place by WOGA as essentially a welfare/subsidy for them. For those reasons, I do not like the law at all, and don't agree with it.

The funding argument is a non-starter for me. To simply look at a GF budget and try to argue that its unfair from that angle, is pretty lame. The reason I say that, is what is never considered, is the amount of money that is funneled to the GF from Wyoming based NGO's, WWNRT, etc. etc. The other thing that is never considered is how much time and effort is spent by resident volunteers regarding improving things for hunting, wildlife, conservation, etc.

So, when those are considered regarding the funding disparity, the gap starts to really narrow and not hold much water as a reasonable argument to me. But, that's just my opinion, and I have no problem if others don't agree. Its just that I'm in the position to see how many hours, so many give, without anything for reimbursement...and rarely even a "thank you".

The only way to over-turn this would be to somehow gather enough Resident support to reverse it. I think that's going to be very tough sledding. There are guys like me that think the law is total crap and if the decision were up to me, I would repeal it today. However, because the average Resident probably only hunts one state, and the fact that the law gives Residents some relief from NR hunters, its highly unlikely they would want to repeal the law.

Finally, the amount of political capital that would be required for Residents to actually get something like this passed would probably not be worth it. In particular at this time, where there is still those within the legislature that are so blatantly outfitter sympathetic.

IMO, any law can be over-turned, but timing is critical and perhaps down the road it can be revisited.

But, I fundamentally disagree with the law, who passed it, and why and most certainly see why NR are upset about it.

 

[JWP58]

The heartburn I have is I can spend the next two weeks hiking around alone, with no guide, in the same exact terrain as in a few months for me to hunt requires I have a guide. I can fish there. I can bird watch. Take pictures.

So, is not a safety issue.

Is merely a full-employment guide welfare initiative. Bernie Sanders would be proud of you Wyoming. Feel the Bern.

Well he, his wife, and ol' slick willy are in the state as I type this...maybe someone should tell them.

Adding into the volunteer money and labor that Buzz cited, people that live here, contribute to tax revenue here....year round....like today when its blowing 70mph. Not one week.