WY Game and Fish wants your thoughts on the preference point system (Moose and Sheep)

[Oak]

They have mountains of data and it's been presented by Jennifer Doering a half dozen times.

The problem isn't the data, the problem is the lack of knowledge on the task force.

Same problem in Colorado. There is no way our commission with the current makeup could make an educated decision on allocation, regardless of how much data you give them. The vast majority of them have never even hunted big game, much less applied for a limited license.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes?

Not being totally sarcastic. I’m not in any way a numbers guy, but I think this gets lost in the weeds.

First, you have to establish what exactly you’re trying to solve. Then, run the numbers and see if it does that.

Based on 2022 unit quotas and applications, would the proposed changes make any meaningful change to the odds of drawing a tag, for both the first time applicant and the upper tier applicant?

Not everyone can see their odds improved. For every person who did, someone else lost ground.

My recommendation on the first day of the task force meeting was 90-10 for the big 5. Keep the point system we have, split the tags 50-50 random/preference.

Leveled things for wyoming residents, screwed the NR with the most points, benefited Johnnie come latelys.

I'm sure brentd and his trusty sidekick vikingsguy would still complain as per usual.

 

[Rhcuam]

My recommendation on the first day of the task force meeting was 90-10 for the big 5. Keep the point system we have, split the tags 50-50 random/preference.

Leveled things for wyoming residents, screwed the NR with the most points, benefited Johnnie come latelys.

I'm sure brentd and his trusty sidekick vikingsguy would still complain as per usual.

It’s so damn simple, it just might work.

 

[Buffs35]

Random draws always work.

Not for me. That's why I don't apply in New Mexico. I buy more points than I need over the years, this way I have some certainly when it comes to drawing a tag. I plan my hunting calendar 5 years or more in advance. Sometimes I get squeezed out of a plan and have to adjust, but most times it works.

 

[Buffs35]

Are shared resource and pyramid scheme the new insults de jure, or are we still using flat brim and road hunter? Asking for a friend.

 

[madtom]

Random draws always work.

I honestly think a random draw with your first choice box greyed out for X years after you draw would be fine.

 

[WapitiBob]

They have mountains of data and it's been presented by Jennifer Doering a half dozen times.

The problem isn't the data, the problem is the lack of knowledge on the task force.

BINGO

 

[Huntnut60]

Are shared resource and pyramid scheme the new insults de jure, or are we still using flat brim and road hunter? Asking for a friend.

Don’t forget incumbents.

 

[VikingsGuy]

My recommendation on the first day of the task force meeting was 90-10 for the big 5. Keep the point system we have, split the tags 50-50 random/preference.

Leveled things for wyoming residents, screwed the NR with the most points, benefited Johnnie come latelys.

I'm sure brentd and his trusty sidekick vikingsguy would still complain as per usual.

That’s not a bad suggestion, but of course you engaged in name calling and generally dismissive commentary for the first 9 pages before offering it - well done o’ grand ambassador of hunting.

 

[BuzzH]

That’s not a bad suggestion, but of course you engaged in name calling and generally dismissive commentary for the first 9 pages before offering it - well done o’ grand ambassador of hunting.

What name calling might that be? I think you're confused.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

First, you have to establish what exactly you’re trying to solve. Then, run the numbers and see if it does that.

Based on 2022 unit quotas and applications, would the proposed changes make any meaningful change to the odds of drawing a tag, for both the first time applicant and the upper tier applicant?

Not everyone can see their odds improved. For every person who did, someone else lost ground.

100%

My only addition is that folks seem to be totally conflating two different issues extreme low odd draws and polishing that turd (MSG + limited elk/deer/pronghorn), with allocating opportunity for high volume opportunity that is experiencing point creep.

 

[Jdp010]

..
2. Points are free and only accrued by failing to draw (I.e., no “point only” option).

#2 sounds good - but is too easy to game. Everyone will just designate a hunt code to flood with first choices – hoping/planning to fail and take your point as backup.

That’s what happened with GEN-deer Thousand Lakes unit in Utah before Utah closed the loophole where you could draw choice #2 AND keep your GEN deer points. Everyone just put down thousand lakes as choice # 1 and the unit you really wanted to draw as choice #2. So you got to hunt a 2-3 point Utah GEN deer unit every year AND keep your points.

I never had any intention of hunting Thousand Lakes in Utah but I can show you 10+ years of apps where it was my first choice.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Keep PP's as is but make them unit and type specific not just species specific. First year this takes affect all previously accumulated PP's would go towards the unit and type you applied for that year.



I get tired of having to come up with all the good ideas around here. Really does nothing to fix the issue but I just wanted to join in on the fun of coming up with ever more creative ways to make it seem like draw odds are getting better over time.

 

[Exhausted]

#2 sounds good - but is too easy to game. Everyone will just designate a hunt code to flood with first choices – hoping/planning to fail and take your point as backup.

That’s what happened with GEN-deer Thousand Lakes unit in Utah before Utah closed the loophole where you could draw choice #2 AND keep your GEN deer points. Everyone just put down thousand lakes as choice # 1 and the unit you really wanted to draw as choice #2. So you got to hunt a 2-3 point Utah GEN deer unit every year AND keep your points.

I never had any intention of hunting Thousand Lakes in Utah but I can show you 10+ years of apps where it was my first choice.

I would definitely be a fan of, "Hold any tag for that species? No points for that species." I.E. you pick up a type 4 elk tag in WY, you lose you elk points. Deer B tag in MT? No deer points for you.

I'm sure that would piss off a pile of people lol

 

[BuzzH]

100%

My only addition is that folks seem to be totally conflating two different issues extreme low odd draws and polishing that turd (MSG + limited elk/deer/pronghorn), with allocating opportunity for high volume opportunity that is experiencing point creep.

Yes, and a bunch of people that are off the road, across the right-of-way, and plowing through the rhubarb...

The proposed change we're talking about (allegedly) is SHEEP AND MOOSE.

Goats aren't under kind of point system and have been random from the start.

I would bet a majority commenting/whining/complaining don't even apply for moose and sheep in Wyoming. Most are thinking this change will apply to elk, deer, pronghorn, it will not.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Yes, and a bunch of people that are off the road, across the right-of-way, and plowing through the rhubarb...

The proposed change we're talking about (allegedly) is SHEEP AND MOOSE.

Goats aren't under kind of point system and have been random from the start.

I would bet a majority commenting/whining/complaining don't even apply for moose and sheep in Wyoming. Most are thinking this change will apply to elk, deer, pronghorn, it will not.

So this is about mule deer, prongohrn & bear. Got it. Assuming trout as well.

Eliminate all points, go to a totally random draw & make it a strict 90/10.

Anything else is just mah-jong but without the drama and more point creep.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Yes, and a bunch of people that are off the road, across the right-of-way, and plowing through the rhubarb...

The proposed change we're talking about (allegedly) is SHEEP AND MOOSE.

Goats aren't under kind of point system and have been random from the start.

I would bet a majority commenting/whining/complaining don't even apply for moose and sheep in Wyoming. Most are thinking this change will apply to elk, deer, pronghorn, it will not.

Why not just make moose and sheep once in a lifetime and for residents only and NR cannot even apply, heck just do that for the big 5....here again, I don't apply for the big 5 at all

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Yes, and a bunch of people that are off the road, across the right-of-way, and plowing through the rhubarb...

The proposed change we're talking about (allegedly) is SHEEP AND MOOSE.

Goats aren't under kind of point system and have been random from the start.

I would bet a majority commenting/whining/complaining don't even apply for moose and sheep in Wyoming. Most are thinking this change will apply to elk, deer, pronghorn, it will not.

Rhubarb plowing going both ways...

I bet a majority commenting/whining/complaining don't even apply for moose and sheep in Wyoming. Most are thinking this change will apply to elk, deer, pronghorn and want the NR from CO to get off their lawn... which this won't effect at all, and the lawn doesn't belong to WY and the people who are apparently the issue aren't even hunters... sooooooo

 

[seeth07]

Keep PP's as is but make them unit and type specific not just species specific. First year this takes affect all previously accumulated PP's would go towards the unit and type you applied for that year.

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I get tired of having to come up with all the good ideas around here. Really does nothing to fix the issue but I just wanted to join in on the fun of coming up with ever more creative ways to make it seem like draw odds are getting better over time.

I actually love this idea. Forces you to just apply for where the hell you want to hunt rather than building points hoping to snag a tag for the "glorified unit" that you know nothing about rather than just heading out and hunting. I think this really would solve a lot of dismal odds and point creep. Doesn't change opportunity, just the perception of it.

 

[WapitiBob]

Keep PP's as is but make them unit and type specific not just species specific. First year this takes affect all previously accumulated PP's would go towards the unit and type you applied for that year.

I like it, with Buzz's 50/50 pp/random split added.