Who And What Was George Custer?

[shrapnel]

Today marks the 145th anniversary of the Custer Battle of 1876. He died a hero’s death, but since has been vilified in history as anything but a hero. I have studied him and the battle and find him fiercely misunderstood.

Yesterday and today I visited the battlefield and can’t help feeling the impact of all the events surrounding the battle. Anyone visiting the state of Montana should include this site in their visit...

 

[jabber]

First time I visited the battlefield, it was late in the afternoon with a storm blowing in. Just standing on top of the hill looking around and soaking in what had happened there sent chills down my spine. Definitely a site that needs to be visited if you are anywhere close to it.

 

[Cousin Basil]

Excellent place to visit. Read a good book or two about the battle before you go!

 

[Bob-WY]

Good book or 2?

Suggestions? Been there twice, most likely again in August

 

[Otto Matic]

George Custer?
Wasn't that the guy who put his cream in the freezer and called the result "Frozen Custard"?
Yeah! I know! Bad joke! LOL!

Actually, many moons back (years? decades?) I read an article that said Custer's troops had been armed with Spencer repeating carbines. Just before leaving on this exercise, the Army issued Remington "Rolling Block" rifles in .45-70 and picked up the Spencer carbines.
Per the article, the ammo for the new Remingtons had a habit of sticking in the chamber, so the new ammo was lubricated and placed in belt pouches with flap covers.
The ammo got dusty on the march. The lube allowed the grit to stick to the cases. After two or three shots, the fired cases became engraved on the chamber wall and wouldn't eject.
The soldiers were suddenly armed with Remington Rolling Block "CLUBS"!
The Indians, however, were armed with Spencer carbines.

How true?
Uhhmmm... I wasn't there, but the story sounds plausible.

I will say this.
I don't think the settlers from as far back as "Plymouth Rock" treated the "natives" fairly.
Nor did some of the natives react kindly towards the settlers.

I would love to read the book "1491".

 

[rwc101]

I'll crack a beer today in memory of the Lakota and Cheyenne.

 

[RobertD]

George Custer?
Wasn't that the guy who put his cream in the freezer and called the result "Frozen Custard"?
Yeah! I know! Bad joke! LOL!

Actually, many moons back (years? decades?) I read an article that said Custer's troops had been armed with Spencer repeating carbines. Just before leaving on this exercise, the Army issued Remington "Rolling Block" rifles in .45-70 and picked up the Spencer carbines.
Per the article, the ammo for the new Remingtons had a habit of sticking in the chamber, so the new ammo was lubricated and placed in belt pouches with flap covers.
The ammo got dusty on the march. The lube allowed the grit to stick to the cases. After two or three shots, the fired cases became engraved on the chamber wall and wouldn't eject.
The soldiers were suddenly armed with Remington Rolling Block "CLUBS"!
The Indians, however, were armed with Spencer carbines.

How true?
Uhhmmm... I wasn't there, but the story sounds plausible.

I will say this.
I don't think the settlers from as far back as "Plymouth Rock" treated the "natives" fairly.
Nor did some of the natives react kindly towards the settlers.

I would love to read the book "1491".

I've heard similar. Fits with the trend of US Army being poorly armed and/or poorly manned in the post-Civil War era of Indian fighting.

 

[bennirio]

I agree on visiting the battlefield. It is a must if you want to see history not just read about it. I know we can learn from something that happened 145 years ago. Today we are turning into a tribal nation and not as willing to see the world thru someone else's eyes. Hindsight is 20/20 and we can pick and choose what "they" should have done all those years ago. I say let's learn from our past. The good and bad. By studying our combined history we can "form a more perfect union."

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I'll crack a beer today in memory of the Lakota and Cheyenne.

What about in memory of Custer, his 4 or 5 dozen men and the dozens of horses also?

 

[shrapnel]

I've heard similar. Fits with the trend of US Army being poorly armed and/or poorly manned in the post-Civil War era of Indian fighting.

Actually there isn’t any truth in any of that. Custer was issued Colt 45 SAA revolvers and Trapdoor Springfield carbines in 45-70. Spencers were what the Michigan Wolverines used in the Civil War.

The army wasn’t malfeasant in their selection of weapons either. You have to know why the Trapdoor was adopted and what made it the better weapon in the Indian wars.

It wasn’t about expending as much ammunition as possible, it was about how to set up a skirmish line and maintain constant firing and having more range and killing power than you got with a Henry or 1866 Winchester.

 

[BigHornRam]

Good book or 2?

Suggestions? Been there twice, most likely again in August

This was a good book of that era. Grinnell was supposed to go on that trip with Custer, and had gone to the Blackhills two years earlier with him.

Grinnell

Winner • National Outdoor Book Award (History/Biography)<br /> Longlisted • PEN/Jacqueline Bograd Weld Award for Biography<p> Before Rachel Carson, there was George Bird Grinnell—the man whose prophetic vision did nothing less than launch American conservation.</p>, Grinnell, America's...

wwnorton.com

 

[RobertD]

Actually there isn’t any truth in any of that. Custer was issued Colt 45 SAA revolvers and Trapdoor Springfield carbines in 45-70. Spencers were what the Michigan Wolverines used in the Civil War.

The army wasn’t malfeasant in their selection of weapons either. You have to know why the Trapdoor was adopted and what made it the better weapon in the Indian wars.

It wasn’t about expending as much ammunition as possible, it was about how to set up a skirmish line and maintain constant firing and having more range and killing power than you got with a Henry or 1866 Winchester.

Thanks for the clarification - I don't know the subject well.

I know more about the Fetterman Fight, but my knowledge is still pretty limited even there.

 

[Gr8bawana]

 

[shrapnel]

Good book or 2?

Suggestions? Been there twice, most likely again in August

Here is a great start. There are hundreds of books written about the battle and only a few dozen are accurate. I had dinner last night with both Michael Donahue and Steve Adelson. Both of these men are probably the best sources alive today to recount what actually happened...

 

[shrapnel]

View attachment 186636

This is the kind of misinformation that muddies up the real history of America. The Indian wars were not genocide and there were never 100 million Indians in North America.

 

[rwc101]

“We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women, and children...during an assault, the soldiers can not pause to distinguish between male and female, or even discriminate as to age." - General Philip Sheridan

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

100 million. Whoever made that meme failed math.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Failed history also, but not surprisingly got an A+ in marketing propaganda.

 

[RobertD]

This one won't be open forever so let's try and make a discussion of it.

I agree that the 100 million number is pushing it. But being conservative, it's still likely in the neighborhood of 50 million, no?

I also don't think "genocide" is quite the right term. But then, what is instead?