Where does all the rifle BS come from?

[Deleted member 20812]

View attachment 110943

#booner

Aka slob, shooter, pig, smoker.

 

[npaden]

Not sure where they get their information from but Alaska has some pretty specific requirements for hunting Bison.

Rifle/handgun: must fire a 200 grain or larger bullet, which retains at least 2000 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. A .30-06 with a 220 grain bullet is about the minimal weapon that meets this specification.

Seems that a .300 Ultra Mag shooting a 180 grain bullet would be better than a .30-06 shooting a 220 grain bullet, but the .300 Ultra Mag shooting a 180 grain bullet would be below the legal requirements while a .30-06 shooting a 220 grain bullet would not be even though the .300 Ultra Mag would have significantly higher ft/lbs of energy.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=deltabison.weaponslegalhunting

Of course legal requirements are not always tied to logical requirements.

P.S. - I would love to see the handgun that met those requirements!

 

[RockinU]

you forgot toad...

 

[lastlight]

Ok then, if accuracy was the only aspect that matters, then we'd all hunt with the smallest legal caliber. Point is, yes, you have to make the right hit, but you also have to do it with enough energy to deliver the desired results in a responsible time frame. As for head shooting deer with anything and having them drop dead, I have a collection of pictures of deer with noses, and bottom jaws blown off by the "clean kill or clean miss" crowd. A couple of them standing in water dying of thirst...so no they don't always drop dead.

Noses and jaws are not the head/brain. Thats like comparing a heart shot to a shoulder shot, again...accuracy.

I see you use a 300 WM and a 200gr bullet. This is just my opinion based off baseball size exit wounds and amount of meat loss that I have personally seen with cannons, but its beyond the term overkill. Again, just my opinion. For your enjoyment I now shoot a 6.5x284 120gr nosler copper bullet. Although limited experience so far, a dozen deer and 2 bull elk dropped dead all double lunged.

 

[mtmuley]

When I was 13 in 1979 and started hunting, the RUM didn't exist. I had to wait till 1999. Now I load every rifle I have for speed. mtmuley

 

[rwc101]

All cartridge threads lead to the same place...

 

[RockinU]

Noses and jaws are not the head/brain. Thats like comparing a heart shot to a shoulder shot, again...accuracy.

I see you use a 300 WM and a 200gr bullet. This is just my opinion based off baseball size exit wounds and amount of meat loss that I have personally seen with cannons, but its beyond the term overkill. Again, just my opinion. For your enjoyment I now shoot a 6.5x284 120gr nosler copper bullet. Although limited experience so far, a dozen deer and 2 bull elk dropped dead all double lunged.

It's been a while since I took anatomy, but when I did, I'm pretty sure I remember both the nose, and jaw being part of the head, but I know school has changed a lot since then, and it has absolutely dick to do with accuracy, and everything to do with time, as in the animal shifts it's position ever so slightly in the time it takes between your brain deciding to fire, and your finger executing that decision. Reticle doesn't have to move for the shot to go wrong.

I'm fine with you thinking my choice is overkill, as a matter of fact I'm fine with it being overkill, I'll live with some lost rib meat if that's the consequence. If you think that's overkill, I had a year where I shot 42 white tail deer with a .300 RUM, they didn't run much either. The 6.5x.284 intrigues me, and is definitely on my list.

I think everyone should make their own decisions about what the best choice for ethical kills means to them, I just think they should make that decision with knowledge of the facts, and to discount the velocity aspect of ballistics is ignoring a major fact.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

This astute hunter is clearly running a double reverse twist buffalo sinew string, known across the land for its knock down power and bone crushing speed.

#keephammering

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Of course legal requirements are not always tied to logical requirements.

Another example Kentucky and elk.

Apparently the brainiacs down there think a .357 mag is a better choice for elk and bear hunting than a 6.5-300 weatherby mag... despite the later having 7x the energy

... but it's Kentucky so...

 

[cahunter805]

Math don't kill

It does help make longer shots though!

 

[cahunter805]

Another demonstration would be that the man bun (6.5 c) shooting a 140 grain bullet will stay above 1000 ft/lbs 100 yards further than a .308 shooting a 175 grain.

Exactly the reason why I love my 6.5SAUM.

 

[FLS]

Most of what you read is anecdotal. How many people actually get to shoot a lot of animals with multiple cartridges using a variety of projectiles? A couple of deer a year is a small sample, yet that guy will proclaim that XYZ caliber is an absolute deer slayer, and the only thing that any responsible hunter should use.

 

[Europe]

I could read this thread, listen to the mueller testimony, or since it is time to eat here, have dinner, drink some wine and listen to a jazz band. Decisions, Decisions (-;

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I could read this thread, listen to the mueller testimony, or since it is time to eat here, have dinner, drink some wine and listen to a jazz band. Decisions, Decisions (-;

drink some wine and listen to a jazz band

Of those options this is clearly the winner.

 

[RockinU]

I could read this thread, listen to the mueller testimony, or since it is time to eat here, have dinner, drink some wine and listen to a jazz band. Decisions, Decisions (-;

I would eat, drink, and listen too good music...it will be much more additive to your life.

 

[brockel]

You want to get hit with my car or a semi?

If the semi is going 1mph and the car is going 90mph. Give me the semi please

 

[BuzzH]

It's an interesting academic discussion, where it'll be hard to find a definitive answer. A well placed double lung .22 mag will kill and elk eventually, while a well placed PGU-28B will kill an elk instantly. If there is an ideal level of some measure of power, it's likely to be a moving target based on a ridiculous number of variables. So probably the best answer is a level of energy sufficient to render a reasonably quick death in most situations, yet doesn't do enough damage to reduce the usability of the resource.

Not an elk, but a mule deer I shot at around 80 yards through the lungs with a .22 magnum...it didn't kill that deer "eventually" it killed it pretty quickly, less than a minute for sure. Deer ran maybe 50 yards, staggered around a bit and died. I've shot deer with a .338 and 250 grain nosler partitions that acted about the same after being shot through the lungs.

Never been a big believer in energy being the measure of how well a particular caliber kills. IMO, and IME, the 3 most important things in killing big game are: shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement. Sample size of a few hundred big-game animals, for the record.

 

[noharleyyet]

Yep Buzz, like real estate and kissing, it's location, location, location...

 

[hank4elk]

This was the prehistoric way of spouting shit on the internet.

View attachment 110942

Is that bow hunter pulling a Tejas heart shot?

 

[Greyman]

Of course shot placement is the most important factor. A record grizzly was dropped in 1953 by a very small Cree woman named Bella Twin with a .22 long. I wouldn't recommend it though. If I had a choice, I'd rather have something with a few more foot-pounds.

Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More

On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake. She was 63 years old.

www.ammoland.com