We aren’t going to tolerate racism or racist themed posts.

[Wildabeest]

Complete random fact I worked witha guy on a job today with swastika tattoos. I honestly never even thought that was still a real thing. What a phuggin scuzzbucket of a human being.

When I lived in NC, a buddy invited me on a weekend outing to an old plantation in SC that was then operating as a hunting and shooting preserve. Cool place that had been in the same family since original land grant from the King of England and lots of Civil War history on the property including trenches dug by the confederate army. Long story short, our evening sit around the campfire turned into a full-on KKK meeting. No hoods or other ceremonial stuff, but they all openly talked about Klan business. Felt like I was in a time warp.

 

[Nick87]

When I lived in NC, a buddy invited me on a weekend outing to an old plantation in SC that was then operating as a hunting and shooting preserve. Cool place that had been in the same family since original land grant from the King of England and lots of Civil War history on the property including trenches dug by the confederate army. Long story short, our evening sit around the campfire turned into a full-on KKK meeting. No hoods or other ceremonial stuff, but they all openly talked about Klan business. Felt like I was in a time warp.

Disgusting. This guy was trying to tell me about his time in Louisiana in the klan. Wasn't interested in hearing about it.

 

[Wildabeest]

Disgusting. This guy was trying to tell me about his time in Louisiana in the klan. Wasn't interested in hearing about it.

Was also my first experience with a pigeon shoot. Which I found equally disgusting. Blasting junk with a full-auto AK-47 was pretty fun though.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

I’ve met many , the horse community around Cohoctah Mi is rampant with the KKK .
I thought I knew some of them well , turns out I didn’t.



@Lostinthewoods it sounds like you’re upset or a little emotional.
No reason to be , imo , you do what you thinks best and others will deal with it .
I’m surprised it even makes others upset .
Of all the things going on right now this is like -1011 on my list .

I’m not upset? Text is always hard to read emotions, but I assure you I’m not. If I was emotional I feel like I would have handled this so much differently with my responses.

I’m used to making decisions that most will follow and some will always be upset about. This is just another example.

 

[ChaosOneZero]

When I got out of the Army, I got a part-time job tending bar at the VFW. The steward who hired me had one rule: No religion and no politics in the club.

Took about two hours into my first shift to figure out why.

 

[Nick87]

Was also my first experience with a pigeon shoot.

Who doesnt like shooting pigeons?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Who doesnt like shooting pigeons?

If it was a pigeon shoot, I assume he’s talking about taking trapped birds out of a pen and shooting them as they fly away, not shooting feral pigeons flying around the barnyard. The latter is a good hunt. The former is skeet with live targets.

 

[Nick87]

If it was a pigeon shoot, I assume he’s talking about taking trapped birds out of a pen and shooting them as they fly away, not shooting feral pigeons flying around the barnyard. The latter is a good hunt. The former is skeet with live targets.

Ahh I see. I learned something new today. Shot more pigeons than I can count around the silo. Never out of a cage.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Ahh I see. I learned something new today. Shot more pigeons than I can count around the silo. Never out of a cage.

Did you eat many of them? I shot one on a local farm, when my dog was a puppy, to get wings for training. I ate the breasts and they were really good!

 

[Hem]

Did you eat many of them? I shot one on a local farm, when my dog was a puppy, to get wings for training. I ate the breasts and they were really good!

Hungry people snare them in NYC.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Ahh I see. I learned something new today. Shot more pigeons than I can count around the silo. Never out of a cage.

Think redneck version of English driven pheasant shoots. Bird is launched or thrown into the air, shooter tries to kill it before it gets out of range. When I was a teenager we used to climb into silos and barn eaves at night with a flashlight and catch roosting pigeons by hand to sell to a pigeon shoot in Pennsylvania. That was definitely sporty! It’s a wonder I didn’t fall to my death scooching along barn beams with a pigeon tucked inside my shirt and holding on to whatever handhold I could find. I think we caught about 60-70 birds that summer. We kept them in an old shed and fed them shelled corn and water for a month until we had enough to make it worthwhile selling. Probably burned 3 times as much gas catching them as we made selling them.

 

[Wildabeest]

If it was a pigeon shoot, I assume he’s talking about taking trapped birds out of a pen and shooting them as they fly away, not shooting feral pigeons flying around the barnyard. The latter is a good hunt. The former is skeet with live targets.

This

About 10 shooters around a ring maybe 100’ in diameter. Yell “pull” and they turn one loose from the center. If it lands inside the ring, it’s your bird. A runner (African American youth) retrieves it and puts it in your pile. If it’s a wounded bird, the runner must catch it and ring its neck before it can escape the ring. Those runners took some serious verbal abuse when trying to catch wounded birds. There was probably over 1,000 dead pigeons by the end of it. Not my cup of tea on multiple levels.

 

[Nick87]

Did you eat many of them? I shot one on a local farm, when my dog was a puppy, to get wings for training. I ate the breasts and they were really good!

They're basically a jumbo dove. Never met my grandpa but my dad always tells the story that he said in the great depression, he and his siblings were some of the only kids to have much meat to eat and that was pigeons. Couldn't afford to keep the meat off the farm supposedly.

 

[Big Fin]

Just home from eight days off the grid in the Nevada mountains. This is the first thread I have looked at and it seems appropriate that I give my thoughts, though I didn't see the posts involved.

First, I fully support @Lostinthewoods keeping the rules of this place in tact. I'll give some history to a few events over the last few years that have caused me to hire moderators and stick to the rules we have here.

Second, Buzz is not racist. Not one bit. I didn't see the posts or the context, but Lostinthewoods is the moderator, so I'm going with his judgement about whether the posts justified a few days in the penalty box. Buzz's contributions here are appreciated and his efforts in the public land arena, something he's been going for decades, are invaluable. I don't know what was said in the phone call with Buzz and Lostinthewoods, but I trust them both to know it was likely explained and sorted out.

Third, the rules are the rules. I don't give two shits if you're my brother, my neighbor, my employee, a new member, a long-time member, or my best friend, the rules apply. If you don't like that, then go elsewhere. This forum is way to useful for the tasks that are high on my advocacy priority list to let it be messed up by posts that have no purpose on this forum.

Here are a couple of the triggering events that caused me to hire moderators, focusing on moderators who have training and experience in applying rules when they know not everyone will like it. I had to reflect on the comments some past members provided to me and after consideration I realized they were correct - I have allowed things to get too far off the rails at times, whether by laziness, absence, or lack of time to follow every post. It didn't really matter - I'm the owner and those problems fall at my feet.

1. A while back, a member sent me a message of how tired she was of the sexist innuendo. I asked for specific instances that I could correct. She replied that if she had to take the time to show them to me, obviously I wasn't very tuned in and it was probably a waste of her time. She warned me that other women had been discussing in PMs that same issue. A bunch of them left. One of them was kind enough to send me a list of links that were examples.

Guess what? They were right. Most of them were threads I hadn't had time to look at, but they were a bunch of bullshit. Some folks got tossed as a result, but the end result was the same. The forum lost some valued members who provided great perspectives and the continued narrative of hunting being the domain of a bunch of dudes was reaffirmed in their minds. If I had the time, presence, and persistence to follow those threads and had done something about the BS posts, they likely would still be here. And I wouldn't be kicking myself for not taking action.

2. In the last year some racists posts were made in a thread I hadn't read. That person sent me a message about my tolerance for racist bullshit. They have a close family member who is black and this post was very disappointing. In his mind, me not being here to handle it was rightly viewed as tolerating such ignorant BS. He told me to delete his account. When I asked him to do so, he sent me a link to the thread. It was a terrible post. I took care of it, but it was too late. Now, though he didn't delete his account he is not here very often. Again, my fault for letting that kind of crap exist on a forum that I own.

3. Over the COVID period, when a lot of folks were on edge and with too much time on their hands, a long-time member who is black sent me a PM about how much passive racism I allowed here, along with some overt racism. It caught me off guard, for three reasons; first - because I have no tolerance for that crap, second - I try to keep this joint free of that stuff, and third - because he was a long-time member who had made some great posts.

He had never posted a picture of himself. I suspect the people posting on one of this threads had no idea he was black. I looked at those posts to his thread. It embarrassed the hell out of me that a black hunter would have to put up with that kind of shit on a platform I own. He asked that his account be deleted, and given the BS he had just experienced here, I don't blame him. I apologized profusely and honored his request to delete his account. Again, my absence, lack of attention, and other distractions, we lost another valued member.

Those three instances stand out. When I place those on top of the cumulative pile of political crap, the habitual violators of forum rules, the folks who think it's funny to post demeaning BS about any person/group different than themselves, it became obvious I wasn't holding up the expectations I had of myself. I decided I had two options; 1) pay folks so that we had full time moderation in my absence, or 2) just close the forum and call it quits.

That is where the paid moderators come into play. I trust them. If someone is going to get the complete ban, they send that to me and I make the final decision when I return. Some have been banned permanently. Others were left in a short-term penalty box and asked to behave themselves upon return.

And that is how it's going to be on Hunt Talk. So long as I own this forum, it will not be the place for posts that violate the rules and standards we apply.

I have told the moderators to give no consideration to what association I might have with a member, how long that member has been here, or any other worries beyond applying the rules as fairly as they can. Who stays and who goes permanently will be my decision.

Hopefully that gives some context of the changes here over the last year, changes I think have made a lot of progress to keeping the forum on track. We miss a few, but it has been a huge improvement. Moderation is a difficult task and I feel we have great moderators here.

Both members involved in this instance will be welcomed back when the time expires in a day or two.

 

[slatebuilder]

Think redneck version of English driven pheasant shoots. Bird is launched or thrown into the air, shooter tries to kill it before it gets out of range. When I was a teenager we used to climb into silos and barn eaves at night with a flashlight and catch roosting pigeons by hand to sell to a pigeon shoot in Pennsylvania. That was definitely sporty! It’s a wonder I didn’t fall to my death scooching along barn beams with a pigeon tucked inside my shirt and holding on to whatever handhold I could find. I think we caught about 60-70 birds that summer. We kept them in an old shed and fed them shelled corn and water for a month until we had enough to make it worthwhile selling. Probably burned 3 times as much gas catching them as we made selling them.

Hegins?

 

[BuzzH]

Adding @Gr8bwana to this witch hunt discussion.

If you think I'm ashamed for calling out you gross misinterpretation of an obviously political meme as anything remotely racial, think again. The red hat meme in contention here clearly equates MAGA with the Klan. It criticizes MAGA, by comparing it to the Klan. In no way does it endorses the Klan.

Calling a political opinion racist because you disagree with it politically is one issue here. You say you didn't do that. I say even if you didn't intend to do that, the result is the same. I'm a forum moderator. While can be difficult to account for context, in those situations I consider the source; and have offered valued, contributing posters the opportunity to restate/clarify rather than banning them. If you did so and they failed to take advantage, you made the right call. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity to improve the clarity, content and quality of discussion here, and may have alienated important sources of valued advocacy. This nation exists because a political minority questioned, then militarily opposed the majority.

Dissent is at the core of our DNA. Dissenting against every effort to attack public lands is a founding principle of HT. MAGA attacks public lands. How can dissent against MAGA for attacking public lands be banned from HT? Any racism that exists in the fight over public lands comes from the side that wants those lands gone from public domain, easily identified by their red hats. That is the of the metaphor of the red MAGA hood. If that meme had a caption, it would be "MAGA is racist." Calling that racism out is not racist, it is the opposite. You seem intelligent, no way you misunderstood that metaphor as racist, when it attacks the inherent racism of MAGA and PLT.

I have worked with many,.many times more non-white-mainstream Americans than you have ever met, helping them navigate life in our white-dominated culture. Racist actions are far more objectionable and destructive to them than memes that oppose and call out racism (insert pointed red hat). I know because they have told me. Each of them would recognize the red hat meme as critical of MAGA specifically and racism in general. They support such cultural criticisms, and are frustrated that dominant white culture is more concerned with symbolism than with actually confronting the racism that still exists in America. I don't have to presume, they have explicitly told me.

Applying worksite standards here fails to recognize essential differences between HT and someone's job. Advocacy, to name one.



Advocacy involves speaking truth to power, which is exactly the point of the pointed red hat meme. We are still a racist country because we still accept and allow it. Deleting a meme that opposes racism, then claiming you did so because it is racist? Indefensible. The red hat meme is the opposite of racist, it confronts red hat racism. What you term the end of the story, I recognize as you misinterpreting the poster's point entirely. In fact you interpreted it to be the opposite of it's intention, to the detriment of this online community. You banned someone as racist, when what they posted was indisputably an attack against racism. .

Part 1, I couldn't say it better, so I won't.

Some "light" reading.

American democracy is in peril. And racism will be the sledgehammer that destroys it | Kimberlé W Crenshaw

The ‘war against woke’ is not just a war against critical race theory and Black history. It is a war on our democracy

www.theguardian.com

Trump and racism: What do the data say? | Brookings

There is a clear correlation between Trump campaign events and incidents of prejudiced violence.

www.brookings.edu

Many other articles to choose from, Google is your friend.

 

[Rack Daniels]

Im gonna be the first to say " welcome back Buzz"

Ima be the first to call him a racist

He call me clown, I call him racist. All fair

 

[BuzzH]

Part 2.

I've always wanted to believe that hunting and those that participate are an inclusive bunch, supportive, and open minded. Passionate about the sport and other things in their lives. I think for a long time that was perhaps true or at least moving in the right direction.

After, stupidly, reading some of the shit in that meme thread, I'm sorry to say I was wrong. Hunting is still the "good old boy" club for way too many, people who I thought were peers. If these are hunting peers, you can officially count me out.

The blatant racism, sexism, and mean spirited tone was more than I could take. If someone doesn't say or do something, nothing changes and the problem gets worse, like a slow growing cancer.

There were several derogatory memes regarding gay people that pissed me off. Why? Well for one, having gay members of my extended family i don't care a whole lot for demeaning and marginalizing anyone as if they dont matter. Another thing, Ive never mentioned, is that several years ago a member of this board reached out to me for some advice on Wyoming hunting. This person mentioned that they felt I was the only person they felt comfortable asking because I had said something in defense of the gay community. Honestly, I didn't, and still don't know what I even said that gave that person some level of confidence to feel would be non judgemental. Humbling is an understatement. Also, early in a friendship with one of my best friends, I didn't realize for years he had a gay brother. I asked one day why he never told me sooner, he said he just wasn't sure what the reaction would be. I found that extremely sad and unfortunate, that because of nothing more than societal stigma's, one of my best friends was reluctant to tell me that.

So, yeah, it pisses me off to no end every time I gay people being marginalized, made fun of, etc.

The second thing that really bothered me is some blatant racist memes regarding the arab/Muslim race. Some real classy stuff about them being goat fuc--rs, their air force being flying carpets, and to ice the cake wanting our CIC to nuke "Allah" them.

Well, time to share some news. My BHA chapter co chair, when I was still on the WYBHA board, happens to be an Arab American with family still in the middle east. Having spent a lot of time with him and fishing AK with him I found out what its like being an Arab American. Not exactly a day at the beach if you fly to AK. He's shaken down almost every single time for additional screening, has his baggage looked through, etc. He told me why and laughed it off, trying to make me feel comfortable, but the fake smile cant hide what a man's eyes truly feel.

Further, Pete has done some amazing work for public lands including stopping the Columbus Peak land exchange through 2 years of hard uncomfortable work. Work that ensured we have continued use of a backcountry lake and a prime place to hunt.

For some strange reason I think Pete deserves thanks, but doesn't deserve to be called a goat f#$@ing flying carpet rider who's family and culture needs to be turned to glass. Oh, and never mind that 5 members of Pete's family are buried in Arlington.

 

[Hem]

Ima be the first to call him a racist

He call me clown, I call him racist. All fair

I missed the whole sequence of events. Context is everything.
His right to observe commonality between factions.

 

[Rack Daniels]

If it’s any consolation, I argued you’re entitled to think trump is racist. You’re allowed to dress Ken up like a KKK Barbie if you want to… lol.

Welcome back you racist turd!

Glad it wasn’t permanent