We aren’t going to tolerate racism or racist themed posts.

[Petec]

I'm brand spankin' new here, but not young. I agree with the mod. I have modded other boards and never want that headache again.

Trying to make people understand it isn't a public resource, it is private and the rules are the rules was tedious.

Well done.

 

[Nick87]

If you align yourself with anyone fully and give them free passes that should be a .

Thank you.

 

[elkduds]

Elkduds,

The shame falls on you.
Buzz can be the most phenomenal person in the world, but that doesn’t give him a free pass to post a symbol of hate.

I have no clue who buzz is or what he’s done. Everyone is equal here.

For someone who is apparently such a pioneer for doing right, I have no idea why he’s posting symbols used to drive hate on a public forum.

A place that his enemies or anyone can quickly grab and use against him.

What would his bosses think of him posting that? What would his team around him think of that.

I’m a federal employee and know that no one at any level or any agency would tolerate a post like that.

It blows my mind that you think a moderator on a forum has some political agenda to silence someone. My guidelines are pretty simple. Enforce the rules of the page.

No let me get real clear with you. I’ve worked next to men & women of every color, background, social status, political belief, religious beliefs, etc and never once in my life would it cross my mind to post such a stupid picture with hate symbol no matter what way you try to paint it.

You can get as frustrated as you want, but I deleted and banned a member who posted a KKK hood. End of story.

Now go write your own narrative and believe what you want.

Adding @Gr8bwana to this witch hunt discussion.

If you think I'm ashamed for calling out you gross misinterpretation of an obviously political meme as anything remotely racial, think again. The red hat meme in contention here clearly equates MAGA with the Klan. It criticizes MAGA, by comparing it to the Klan. In no way does it endorses the Klan.

Calling a political opinion racist because you disagree with it politically is one issue here. You say you didn't do that. I say even if you didn't intend to do that, the result is the same. I'm a forum moderator. While can be difficult to account for context, in those situations I consider the source; and have offered valued, contributing posters the opportunity to restate/clarify rather than banning them. If you did so and they failed to take advantage, you made the right call. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity to improve the clarity, content and quality of discussion here, and may have alienated important sources of valued advocacy. This nation exists because a political minority questioned, then militarily opposed the majority.

Dissent is at the core of our DNA. Dissenting against every effort to attack public lands is a founding principle of HT. MAGA attacks public lands. How can dissent against MAGA for attacking public lands be banned from HT? Any racism that exists in the fight over public lands comes from the side that wants those lands gone from public domain, easily identified by their red hats. That is the of the metaphor of the red MAGA hood. If that meme had a caption, it would be "MAGA is racist." Calling that racism out is not racist, it is the opposite. You seem intelligent, no way you misunderstood that metaphor as racist, when it attacks the inherent racism of MAGA and PLT.

I have worked with many,.many times more non-white-mainstream Americans than you have ever met, helping them navigate life in our white-dominated culture. Racist actions are far more objectionable and destructive to them than memes that oppose and call out racism (insert pointed red hat). I know because they have told me. Each of them would recognize the red hat meme as critical of MAGA specifically and racism in general. They support such cultural criticisms, and are frustrated that dominant white culture is more concerned with symbolism than with actually confronting the racism that still exists in America. I don't have to presume, they have explicitly told me.

Applying worksite standards here fails to recognize essential differences between HT and someone's job. Advocacy, to name one.

You can get as frustrated as you want, but I deleted and banned a member who posted a KKK hood. End of story.

Advocacy involves speaking truth to power, which is exactly the point of the pointed red hat meme. We are still a racist country because we still accept and allow it. Deleting a meme that opposes racism, then claiming you did so because it is racist? Indefensible. The red hat meme is the opposite of racist, it confronts red hat racism. What you term the end of the story, I recognize as you misinterpreting the poster's point entirely. In fact you interpreted it to be the opposite of it's intention, to the detriment of this online community. You banned someone as racist, when what they posted was indisputably an attack against racism. .

 

[mtmuley]

Adding @Gr8bwana to this witch hunt discussion.

If you think I'm ashamed for calling out you gross misinterpretation of an obviously political meme as anything remotely racial, think again. The red hat meme in contention here clearly equates MAGA with the Klan. It criticizes MAGA, by comparing it to the Klan. In no way does it endorses the Klan.

Calling a political opinion racist because you disagree with it politically is one issue here. You say you didn't do that. I say even if you didn't intend to do that, the result is the same. I'm a forum moderator. While can be difficult to account for context, in those situations I consider the source; and have offered valued, contributing posters the opportunity to restate/clarify rather than banning them. If you did so and they failed to take advantage, you made the right call. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity to improve the clarity, content and quality of discussion here, and may have alienated important sources of valued advocacy. This nation exists because a political minority questioned, then militarily opposed the majority.

Dissent is at the core of our DNA. Dissenting against every effort to attack public lands is a founding principle of HT. MAGA attacks public lands. How can dissent against MAGA for attacking public lands be banned from HT? Any racism that exists in the fight over public lands comes from the side that wants those lands gone from public domain, easily identified by their red hats. That is the of the metaphor of the red MAGA hood. If that meme had a caption, it would be "MAGA is racist." Calling that racism out is not racist, it is the opposite. You seem intelligent, no way you misunderstood that metaphor as racist, when it attacks the inherent racism of MAGA and PLT.

I have worked with many,.many times more non-white-mainstream Americans than you have ever met, helping them navigate life in our white-dominated culture. Racist actions are far more objectionable and destructive to them than memes that oppose and call out racism (insert pointed red hat). I know because they have told me. Each of them would recognize the red hat meme as critical of MAGA specifically and racism in general. They support such cultural criticisms, and are frustrated that dominant white culture is more concerned with symbolism than with actually confronting the racism that still exists in America. I don't have to presume, they have explicitly told me.

Applying worksite standards here fails to recognize essential differences between HT and someone's job. Advocacy, to name one. Advocacy typically involves speaking truth to power, which is exactly the point of the pointed red hat. We are still a racist country because we still accept and allow it. I agree completely with everyone who has told and shown me that truth. Deleting a meme that confronts that racism, then claiming you did so because it is racist? The red hat meme is the opposite of racist, it confronts red hat racism.

This is a hunting forum. SMFH. mtmuley

 

[elkduds]

This is a hunting forum. SMFH. mtmuley

This forum is a public lands defense forum, aimed at hunters.

 

[mtmuley]

This forum is a public lands defense forum, aimed at hunters.

And some of the bullshit that has been posted over the last few days has no place here. Sorry your buddy got axed. mtmuley

 

[Dougfirtree]

Adding @Gr8bwana to this witch hunt discussion.

If you think I'm ashamed for calling out you gross misinterpretation of an obviously political meme as anything remotely racial, think again. The red hat meme in contention here clearly equates MAGA with the Klan. It criticizes MAGA, by comparing it to the Klan. In no way does it endorses the Klan.

Calling a political opinion racist because you disagree with it politically is one issue here. You say you didn't do that. I say even if you didn't intend to do that, the result is the same. I'm a forum moderator. While can be difficult to account for context, in those situations I consider the source; and have offered valued, contributing posters the opportunity to restate/clarify rather than banning them. If you did so and they failed to take advantage, you made the right call. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity to improve the clarity, content and quality of discussion here, and may have alienated important sources of valued advocacy. This nation exists because a political minority questioned, then militarily opposed the majority.

Dissent is at the core of our DNA. Dissenting against every effort to attack public lands is a founding principle of HT. MAGA attacks public lands. How can dissent against MAGA for attacking public lands be banned from HT? Any racism that exists in the fight over public lands comes from the side that wants those lands gone from public domain, easily identified by their red hats. That is the of the metaphor of the red MAGA hood. If that meme had a caption, it would be "MAGA is racist." Calling that racism out is not racist, it is the opposite. You seem intelligent, no way you misunderstood that metaphor as racist, when it attacks the inherent racism of MAGA and PLT.

I have worked with many,.many times more non-white-mainstream Americans than you have ever met, helping them navigate life in our white-dominated culture. Racist actions are far more objectionable and destructive to them than memes that oppose and call out racism (insert pointed red hat). I know because they have told me. Each of them would recognize the red hat meme as critical of MAGA specifically and racism in general. They support such cultural criticisms, and are frustrated that dominant white culture is more concerned with symbolism than with actually confronting the racism that still exists in America. I don't have to presume, they have explicitly told me.

Applying worksite standards here fails to recognize essential differences between HT and someone's job. Advocacy, to name one.



Advocacy involves speaking truth to power, which is exactly the point of the pointed red hat meme. We are still a racist country because we still accept and allow it. Deleting a meme that opposes racism, then claiming you did so because it is racist? Indefensible. The red hat meme is the opposite of racist, it confronts red hat racism. What you term the end of the story, I recognize as you misinterpreting the poster's point entirely. In fact you interpreted it to be the opposite of it's intention, to the detriment of this online community. You banned someone as racist, when what they posted was indisputably an attack against racism. .

I haven't seen the meme that everyone is talking about, so I can't really say, but I'm suspicious that you're correct here and that it was more in the context of a political cartoon? That sounds more like Buzz to me. I'm worried that this may have been an unfortunate time/place to draw a hard line... I also didn't see what Gr8bwana posted, but (and correct me if I'm wrong here), isn't he one of only a handful of non-white users here? The more I hear about this, the more I wonder (respectfully), if this may have been a well-intentioned, but somewhat misguided action? I don't know not having seen any of it. I think both of them have generally been valuable users here.

 

[brymoore]

And some of the bullshit that has been posted over the last few days has no place here. Sorry your buddy got axed. mtmuley

And Randy’s hunting buddy. I wonder if this story’s ending is done.

There’s definitely BS but it comes from both directions. Shoulder shrugging helps.

Note: I’m not supporting racism nor saying the mod wasn’t correct in his actions.

 

[elkduds]

This forum is a public lands defense forum, aimed at hunters.

@mtmuley, this is not a disagreement to your view of HT. Hunters and public land go together. If hunters don't lead the fight for public lands, where will we hunt, and will it be as awesome?

Buzz isn't my buddy. I've never met Buzz, if I did argument would ensue instantly. Because I suspect that's how we both roll. I've tried to make the point that what he posted was not racist, it was against racism. I'd make the same argument if you or anyone else was banned for a misunderstanding or disagreement without both sides being considered. I admire what Buzz is accomplishing for hunters through corner crossing/BHA. He likely would not be as effective if he wasn't such a squeaky wheel. That always rubs some people the wrong way. There is room in the world, and I believe here on HT, for opposing views. I truly believe Buzz was banned for being a political squeaky wheel, not for posting a red hat meme that was meant to be polarizing, and succeeded. If all I wrote today doesn't make that point, it can't be made, at least by me, so I won't argue the point further. We are past the point of constructive disagreement.

Axing Buzz for his political opinion and claiming it was for racism, that I disagree with.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

Adding @Gr8bwana to this witch hunt discussion.

If you think I'm ashamed for calling out you gross misinterpretation of an obviously political meme as anything remotely racial, think again. The red hat meme in contention here clearly equates MAGA with the Klan. It criticizes MAGA, by comparing it to the Klan. In no way does it endorses the Klan.

Calling a political opinion racist because you disagree with it politically is one issue here. You say you didn't do that. I say even if you didn't intend to do that, the result is the same. I'm a forum moderator. While can be difficult to account for context, in those situations I consider the source; and have offered valued, contributing posters the opportunity to restate/clarify rather than banning them. If you did so and they failed to take advantage, you made the right call. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity to improve the clarity, content and quality of discussion here, and may have alienated important sources of valued advocacy. This nation exists because a political minority questioned, then militarily opposed the majority.

Dissent is at the core of our DNA. Dissenting against every effort to attack public lands is a founding principle of HT. MAGA attacks public lands. How can dissent against MAGA for attacking public lands be banned from HT? Any racism that exists in the fight over public lands comes from the side that wants those lands gone from public domain, easily identified by their red hats. That is the of the metaphor of the red MAGA hood. If that meme had a caption, it would be "MAGA is racist." Calling that racism out is not racist, it is the opposite. You seem intelligent, no way you misunderstood that metaphor as racist, when it attacks the inherent racism of MAGA and PLT.

I have worked with many,.many times more non-white-mainstream Americans than you have ever met, helping them navigate life in our white-dominated culture. Racist actions are far more objectionable and destructive to them than memes that oppose and call out racism (insert pointed red hat). I know because they have told me. Each of them would recognize the red hat meme as critical of MAGA specifically and racism in general. They support such cultural criticisms, and are frustrated that dominant white culture is more concerned with symbolism than with actually confronting the racism that still exists in America. I don't have to presume, they have explicitly told me.

Applying worksite standards here fails to recognize essential differences between HT and someone's job. Advocacy, to name one.



Advocacy involves speaking truth to power, which is exactly the point of the pointed red hat meme. We are still a racist country because we still accept and allow it. Deleting a meme that opposes racism, then claiming you did so because it is racist? Indefensible. The red hat meme is the opposite of racist, it confronts red hat racism. What you term the end of the story, I recognize as you misinterpreting the poster's point entirely. In fact you interpreted it to be the opposite of it's intention, to the detriment of this online community. You banned someone as racist, when what they posted was indisputably an attack against racism. .

I appreciate your response.
Unfortunately I don’t think you and I are going to see eye to eye and here is why.

As a fellow moderator I also challenge you to consider this. You asked me to consider the source. While I appreciate that, 95% of new users, guests, and existing members might not know the source or have the ability to know who the poster is. Someone shows up brand new and sees we allow pictures like that, they will leave.

So while buzz might be one of the most phenomenal people that’s ever happened for Wyoming or whatever efforts he’s after, how do we ask the masses to overlook his post and just be ok with it?

Again my reason for deleting the post has nothing to do with politics, buzz, or whatever theories someone wants to come up with.

This is a hunting forum and as I’ve said many of times my goal is to keep the place on track, make a good environment to acquire new members and maintain existing ones.

We just simply cannot have those posts here.


If someone is trying to confront racism head on, then why are they using a historical icon of linked to racism and hate.
While the intent might be there they are losing people from the get go because of the method they are trying to portray it.

My example before is I’m not going to use swasitkas and Neo-nazi SS symbols to try to combat something because I’m losing all credibility right from the start.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

@mtmuley, t.

Axing Buzz for his political opinion and claiming it was for racism, that I disagree with.

I ruffle a lot of feathers here, but I would consider you to ask some of your peers on what I am trying to do in the background.

When I ban it’s usually personal attacks getting way out of hand, complete insane people, or crypto-people.

I also go way out of my way to delete bad posts to keep giant threads open for the majority because I want you to have a place you can have good conversations and keep good topics going.
I don’t throttle speech or political views.


Some of you have your opinion that it might not have been in the context it was messaged and I’m not arguing you on that.


I made a call on an inappropriate picture and I’ll stand on it all day.


So to go with this - Big Fin is out hunting. If he comes back and decides to reverse Buzz’s 4 day ban (yes, 4 days, not permanent)then it’s his call. But in his absence I’m going to do my best to keep stuff on track.

 

[elkduds]

I appreciate your response.
Unfortunately I don’t think you and I are going to see eye to eye and here is why.

As a fellow moderator I also challenge you to consider this. You asked me to consider the source. While I appreciate that, 95% of new users, guests, and existing members might not know the source or have the ability to know who the poster is. Someone shows up brand new and sees we allow pictures like that, they will leave.

So while buzz might be one of the most phenomenal people that’s ever happened for Wyoming or whatever efforts he’s after, how do we ask the masses to overlook his post and just be ok with it?

Again my reason for deleting the post has nothing to do with politics, buzz, or whatever theories someone wants to come up with.

This is a hunting forum and as I’ve said many of times my goal is to keep the place on track, make a good environment to acquire new members and maintain existing ones.

We just simply cannot have those posts here.


If someone is trying to confront racism head on, then why are they using a historical icon of linked to racism and hate.
While the intent might be there they are losing people from the get go because of the method they are trying to portray it.

My example before is I’m not going to use swasitkas and Neo-nazi SS symbols to try to combat something because I’m losing all credibility right from the start.

Agreed, we aren't changing any minds. I posted above that I've made my arguments and will comment no further on this, at least in this thread. I'll just drop this here, and go.

 

[rogerthat]

So are @Nick87 and I the exceptions that prove the rule?

Neither of us is very bright.

Genius comes in many forms and is easy to miss

 

[Lostinthewoods]

I didn’t see the offense so I can’t comment on if it was ban worthy or just a time out. I’m glad I’m not managing this circus.

I see Buzz’s handle is still available but unable to comment. Suspension? Others I’ve seen get the ax say deleted member123. Buzz is a great contributor to HT but also one of its great arguers too.

Yes. 4 day suspension because my job is to mitigate stuff in Randy’s absence.

He is the only one who does permanent bans (excluding a few factors)

 

[brymoore]

So to go with this - Big Fin is out hunting. If he comes back and decides to reverse Buzz’s 4 day ban (yes, 4 days, not permanent)then it’s his call. But in his absence I’m going to do my best to keep stuff on track.

End of thread.

You’re even handed in your moderation. If it’s only four days, who cares. I might have given him a few weeks.

 

[mtmuley]

@Lostinthewoods, get rid of the clown icon too. mtmuley

 

[MTTW]

That is nothing, I have sat in the car for 4 days and waited for my wife to shop at Target.

 

[Dave N]

I'll come out and say it. The meme thread started out ok but now, especially since it's gone NSFW, it's kind of gotten out of hand. Some of the posts really make me shake my head. I know, if you don't want to see it, don't open the thread. Easier said than done. I could do without it and the drama it created.

 

[CRJR45]

Yeah , I disagree with the ban for the hood .
It comes down to intent and clearly that was not a racist statement.
If you gauge humor using your logic @Lostinthewoods , there not much left to joke about.
Not my site , but if people get offended they don’t have to click on the thread .
Seems simple ?

 

[Gerald Martin]

I’m going to weigh in one more time with my opinion and then bow out.

I’m glad to see that Buzz is only suspended and not axed. His contribution to the forum is valuable even if his manner is abrasive.

There was a past thread where @Lostinthewoods timed someone out and I disagreed publicly with him on that one. However, in this case, I agree that those couple of posts warranted a time out. Honestly, in the case of Greatbwana I don’t care if it’s permanent given the body of his posting and the volume of political name calling he’s contributed over the years.

I both agree and disagree with part of Elkduds opinion. I agree that Buzz is not at all racist as a person. However, in my opinion posting a Klan costume with a red MAGA hat crosses a line of civility and appropriates a symbol of hatred and violence in a way that trivializes the seriousness of that symbols effect on those harmed by the Klan and systemic racism. That appropriation and subsequent application of the symbol towards Trump supporters is its own way a bigoted act.

It is akin to someone who didn’t like Harris posting a meme that would depict all female Harris voters in a sexually derogatory manner. Those types of memes and comments are designed to be offensive and inflammatory in nature and as such are ripe for the ban hammer to be exercised on a forum such as this.

Arguing semantics over the thread title of whether this was racist or not racist misses the overarching point that posts like that cross the boundaries that Randy has established must be respected for the privilege of participating on this forum.