Wall Tents 101- educate me

[T Bone]

After this season I am looking at investing in a new base camp. My 3 season 6 man tent proved inadequate with heavy snow. Camp trailers are very limiting on where you can go. A 4 season tent or a wall tent seem like the answer.

I've only one experience sleeping in a wall tent...it was an old Army tent with a diesel fuel stove in it. It wreaked of diesel and mold. I was less impressed after a heavy rain and it leaked like a sieve, followed by a partial collapse when the wind came up. I know that was a junker tent and the wall tents are very popular.

I've a few questions for those in the know.

1) Rain and snow. Since many are canvas and wick water extremely well, what prevents the roof from leaking? Or do you tarp the roof? Can they handle snow loading?

2) Wind. With a high profile wall, what kind of wind can they withstand being properly setup?

3) Packing. Given a 12x12 tent, what are the rough dimensions of the packed up bundle?

4) external vs internal frame. Opinions welcome.

Any other info is good.


I'm also considering the Jumping Jack tent trailer.

 

[Dinkshooter]

I'm also considering the Jumping Jack tent trailer.

Why on earth?

 

[T Bone]

Why on earth?

Because I know a guy that is considering selling his. It's been used twice in 4 years. What are your thoughts on it Dink?

 

[Big Fin]

T-Bone:

I spend about 50-70 nights a year in wall tents. Here are some notes I have learned from that.

Get something in the 12'X14' range, unless you have a big crew and that big crew wants to help you put it up. Anything bigger is a serious PITA for one guy. I can do my 12'X14' in about an hour, from start to finish.

Most important point of all - Get an adjustable frame. A frame that is adjustable at every pole and every joint. You cannot adjust most tent frames, or can only adjust parts of it. When you have unlevel areas, you end up with the frame being tweaked and twisted, or shovelling to level the spots, without a fully adjustable frame. I have had wall tents from different companies, and only found one that had an adjustable frame legs at every leg, and those are the tents I am currently using.

Make sure every part of the frame can be adjusted for length, not just height. Otherwise you have a lot of slack in your canvas when it drapes over the frame. Take it from experience, if you are on a mountain at 9,500' in Nevada and the wind blows 30 mph all night, the flapping of that loose canvas will keep you awake, no matter how tired you are. Or, if you get 30" of snow in WY, that loose canvas acts like a catch trap and you will have a ton of snow saggin the canvas down between the rafters.

Get the lightest weight fabric you can. Traditional canvas is kind by the wayside with the new stuff that is out there. My tents have a fabric with SunForger. It is a marine grade fabric. Very waterproof, very light, and very durable.

Make your own stakes. Get some long spike, weld a big 1" washer at the top, and paint them pink or orange so you don't step on them as often. Good way to screw up a hunt is to step on a tent stake you did not see and roll an ankle.

Get a snap in floor. Probably my favorite part of my tents.

Only get one door. You can order with a door on each end, but that is a PITA. Hard enough to get the frame tight with the one door, let alone two. And, you lose the use of the end without the door, which usually is good for another cot or storying all your junk.

On the end without the door, make sure it has a grommet or buckle about 3' up the wall, allowing you to tie off that wall to another stake. Face that wall into the prevailing wind. When you tie off the rope to the buckle, it pulls that wall really tight and helps with wind and rain. If done right, it will be really tight when you tie it off.

Get at least a 4" sod skirt around the tent. Anyting smaller will not tuck in beneath your tent poles and you will have dust and snow blowing in underneath.

Get zipper windows on each side of the tent, with plastic windows. It can get really hot in a wall tent in September. You want some ventilation. And, in the winter, one guy might like it 100F and have the stove to the point of melting and you might like it closer to 68F. A window helps you stay comfortable if you find yourself in came with menopausal hunting buddies, all of whom I have found to be men.

My tents have been modified. As you know, Denver Tent was involved in our show the first two seasons. There was a reason for that. They make the best tent I have found. I gave them a ton of feedback after that, and much of it has been incorporated into their tents.

I get nothing for saying this and I haven't been in touch with them for two years. But, they do make the best wall tent I have ever found. And with the changes they have made, I suspect they are even better.

Maybe some others make the fully adjustable frames, but if so, I have yet to find it. These tents I have just finished their third season. They look almost brand new. Everyone who has joined us is very impressed with how well they work.

I previously had some wall tents from other companies, and I gave those away. That hurt, as I had paid a lot of money. But, their frames sucked. Good coverings are easy to find. Most tent companies have good canvas or substitute. The frames take some thought and some money to do right. That is where most tent companies go cheap.

To your exact questions, here are my answers. Like all advice, it is worth what you paid for it.

1) Rain and snow. Since many are canvas and wick water extremely well, what prevents the roof from leaking? Or do you tarp the roof? Can they handle snow loading?

If you get Sunforger, or similar fabric, the first thing you do is set it up in your yard and wet it down. Let it dry in the sun. That tightens the weave of the fabric even tighter.

You can use a tarp over the roof, but I do not on mine. Just one more hassle. If the wind blows snow under the tarp, it never dries. I see other guys with a different opinion than I have.

As far as snow loads, I have had 24" dumps on mine and they were fine. Just make sure you had the frame and fabric tight to start with. Go inside and push the ceiling up, and the snow should slide down.

2) Wind. With a high profile wall, what kind of wind can they withstand being properly setup?

We had 60+mph winds in WY this year and it did not bother the tent. Have had similar winds in NV, MT, and other WY trips. A tight frame is paramount. Loose fabric over a frame becomes a parachute. Not what you want when the wind blows.

3) Packing. Given a 12x12 tent, what are the rough dimensions of the packed up bundle?

You won't fit it in your backpack, if that is what you are asking. You already knew that.

My 12'X14' rolls up to a roll that is 3' wide, and stands about 2' tall when rolled up. The frame is in three different bags.

4) external vs internal frame. Opinions welcome.

Internal, no doubt. Way easier to get the fabric tightented over the frame. The frame poles can then be used to hang lanterns, build clothes lines for drying stuff, etc.

If you are interested, here is the website for Denver Tent. They call their wall tent the Colorado Tent. Sounds like a good fit for a guy from Montrose.

https://denvertent.com/common2.php?product_id=1000&root_id=1

Phone is: 1-800-869-7044

If you talk to them, tell them you read about here. Hopefully they won't say, "On Your Own What?" They are good guys. If I made a tent of that quality, I would own the market. Not sure why they don't market more and push those tents.

Good luck.

 

[Sytes]

I have not experienced heavy winds... though never had issue with winds in general in a 12x14.
Mine has 5' walls, 9' ceiling.
External vs internal... I use external when packing it in... pecker poles for the win.
Truck camp base setup, I bought EMT 1" electrical pipe and made the joints from that and 3/4" emt pipe for the frame. About $50-60 total and a bit of welding w/ color coded duct tape for protecting welded areas and quick setup. Think one can buy an internal frame - more fancy like though found the prices freekin nuts for something so simple.
Weight is around 40#'s(approx) packed size, 1.5-2' base, 2-3' width, maybe 3-3.5 height (approx) trying to visualize the size.
Internal frame tent sets up in about 10-15 minutes / take down quicker w/ a bit of time for stakes / guy lines.
I have used a tarp more as a vestuble extension. Never have needed to use for the roof though I know many who do - they say it give a bit of insulation, etc(?).
Snow, easy to knock the ceiling while inside to shake off snow...

edit: Looks like fin and I placed our posts close to the same time. I would certainly - slant towards his thoughts... practice makes perfect.

 

[Bambistew]

Have you thought about going with a tipi instead?

I've not used a wall tent in quite some time, but they are nice once set up. They're REALLY nice if they're somone elses, and they set it up for you. We used to pack in 2, used them probably 30 days a year or so. Personally I think they're a huge PITA to set up, then you have to care/store/trip over them for the 350 days a year. Then once its set up you have to break down... there's another half day.

Fin gave you all the info you could ever ask for. I'm sure he uses his more than about anyone outside the outfitting world. It also sounds like he's got a system down that works slick. Wish we would have had such a nice set up!

We never used a tarp, leaks were rare. However it rarelly rained when we camped. It snowed a lot though. Brush the snow off, and get the fire going and it melts/eveporates the water away. We'd leave ours for a week in the mountains with nothing more than a 4" jackpine for a ridepole and a ' 2" post' to support it in the center. It might be saggin a bit when we got back, but never collapsed.

With a tipi, you can use it for backpacking as well, and also don't need half a truck worth of space to haul it around, plus the poles, and everything else you have to keep track of with the wall tent. I got tired of the 'production' side of camping/hunting out of a wall tent a long time ago. I like to keep it simple and forego some of the luxory items. I'm sure as I get older that may change. You're commited to one spot with a wall tent... for the most part.

 

[T Bone]

Golden info guys!

Bambi,

I have considered a tipi. I have the Kifaru Paratipi with stove for the backpack application. It does best with one person, two are OK and 3 is a real pinch.

The only downfall of the ultra light material is that sparks, falling branches, pinecones and meteorites do go through it like hot butter. Just a dab of silicon and it's good to go.

I'm looking for something a bit heavier for the base camp application. I havn't explored the larger tipis much. I see Denver Tent makes those as well.

Next time in Denver town, I'll be paying them a visit.

 

[Summitthunting]

I have a 12 x 14 and it's great, but mobility is an issue. I am considering a stove jacked tipi tent for 2-3 man adventures and my wall tent for a bigger crowd. Be warned, once you go wall tent you can easily fill a truck and trailer with wall tent accesories. Cots, pads, tables, chairs, lanters, stoves, cooking stoves etc. it can be a slippery slope. Where does necessity end and luxury begin? That being said when your elk hunting in Craig CO in December and it's -20 degrees and your sipping a 7&7 in your T-shirt, wall tents are mighty nice!

 

[BuzzH]

I have a few different ideas...but BigFin pretty well covered most of it, in particular the sun forger canvas.

I dont agree that a 14x16 is any tougher to put up by yourself than a 12x14. Definitely go 5 foot walls all the way...run from any tent with shorter walls as fast as possible. I can have a roof over my head in way less than an hour and I have a 14x16. I'd go NO smaller than 12x14 and I'd give some serious thought toward a 14 x16...I suspect with your kids and such your camp will become pretty large, pretty fast.

Go internal frame, I used 1 inch EMT for the poles.

As to rain and snow...my tent has never been tarped and it flat doesnt leak. It is water proof/mildew proof treated sun forger canvas. The most rain I've had my tent in, is 1.1 inches of precip over night. Not one drop of water made it in the tent.

I can fit my tent, angles, stakes, etc. all in a large sized tote from Walmart. Like mentioned above, its not really the tent thats the issue...its all the other crap.

Never store a tent unless its dry, keep them away from rats and mics, and they will last one long time.

I also like a 12x16 floor from that cheap and light indoor/outdoor carpet...that fake turf looking stuff for a floor. Its pretty nice to wander around in socks in camp.

Wall tents make a darn nice home for hunting...

 

[Oak]

I waffled back and forth this fall about whether to buy a wall tent or something lighter. Ended up buying a Cabelas Alaknak in the 12x12 size. A buddy and I stayed in it 6 nights, and I really like it. I bought a Colorado Cylinder Stove for it, which is made right here in GJ. I bought some cheap indoor/outdoor carpet from Home Depot to use as a floor liner, and it was like sitting in your living room at home.

I think that there are situations where a wall tent would be preferred over the Alaknak, but it will work great for 90% of what I do. Davis Tent and Awning donates a wall tent to the RMBS banquet each spring, and they usually sell very reasonably. I know Davis will exchange it if you buy and want something different. I'm going to try to get one of those stoves above for it this year.

 

[T Bone]

Excellent feedback all. It's much appreciated.

I've some good info to chew on over the winter months.

The tent, some sights for my muzzleloader :MAD, and some click click elevation turrets are 2012's gear investments.

 

[Muley Crazy]

I use a 10X12 with 5 ft side wall's internal W frame Great for 2 guys and gear I can have it up in half hour myslef. I did have a hard time in WY this year getting the tent up in 25 mile per hour winds. I also have the Kifaru 8 man tipi. Great for packing in but way to small if Your camped next to the truck

 

[Blacktailbc]

My buddy and I did quite a bit of research, and ended up buying the cabelas's ISQ. It is the one with the sleeping pods. It keeps the center (or living area) of the tent open, and really increases the space. It comes with 2 pods, but I think it has openings for 6. In theory you could sleep 8 people in it, with all the pods attached. It is a 10x14. I think we got ours for right around $1000, Less than a wall tent and frame.
We run it with just the 2 pods, and it sleeps 3 guys with lots of extra room. Something for you to check out anyway.
P.S. Ours stood up to 40 mph winds in wyoming this year. I was worried, but it didn't fail.

 

[wgiles]

If I was going to be in one place for some time, I would want a wall tent with cots and a stove. As it is, I want something that I can pack in and set up quickly with plenty of room for two people. I was able to pick up a GoLite Shangri-La 5 for a good price and I am confident that it will work for my intended purpose. I considered a Shangri-La 3, but wanted more floor space and headroom. I've got a box trailer that I set up with bunks and a table and I used it for deer camp this fall. I had to pull it out a day early, because there was rain in the forecast and I wouldn't have been able to get it out. It was comfortable, but still a lot of work to get set up and tear down. It saved me at least an hour each day because I didn't have to walk in.

 

[wgiles]

I have a few different ideas...but BigFin pretty well covered most of it, in particular the sun forger canvas.

I dont agree that a 14x16 is any tougher to put up by yourself than a 12x14. Definitely go 5 foot walls all the way...run from any tent with shorter walls as fast as possible. I can have a roof over my head in way less than an hour and I have a 14x16. I'd go NO smaller than 12x14 and I'd give some serious thought toward a 14 x16...I suspect with your kids and such your camp will become pretty large, pretty fast.

Go internal frame, I used 1 inch EMT for the poles.

As to rain and snow...my tent has never been tarped and it flat doesnt leak. It is water proof/mildew proof treated sun forger canvas. The most rain I've had my tent in, is 1.1 inches of precip over night. Not one drop of water made it in the tent.

I can fit my tent, angles, stakes, etc. all in a large sized tote from Walmart. Like mentioned above, its not really the tent thats the issue...its all the other crap.

Never store a tent unless its dry, keep them away from rats and mics, and they will last one long time.

I also like a 12x16 floor from that cheap and light indoor/outdoor carpet...that fake turf looking stuff for a floor. Its pretty nice to wander around in socks in camp.

Wall tents make a darn nice home for hunting...

Did you leave your EMT in long pieces or cut it into short pieces and use couplers? The turf sounds interesting, but wouldn't it get heavy when it gets wet?

 

[huntfishcamp]

I asked the same question in a thread last summer, after spending a week in a dome tent in MT at 9K feet during elk-rifle in 2010, my buddy and I started asking the same questions as you. We looked at everything, then decided a wall tent was for us since we'll be truck camping. We bought a 16x20 from Reliable Tents based in Billings, are couldnt be happier. First use was a week in oct during 2011 MT rifle elk, it was just 2 of us, and we have no regrets. It was under $1500 for tent AND aluminum internal frame, 10oz marine grade canvas, it snowed, 50mph winds, and held up great. We have one door, and zipper-window in the back. I agree with Fin, one door is the way to go. we used the entire back wall with a table for gear, slept close to the stove. We went with the largest one we could afford because it was wasnt much more $$ than smaller ones, and room to bring more friends hunting in the future. Used it recently in ND for late season pheasants, was 10deg one night and 40mph winds and wasnt a big prob. keeping warm (no tarp) or but I could see where the adjustable poles would be nice, we were totally exposed in the wind and canvas flapping all night is annoying. It took us under an hr the second time we set it up. ONly issue is you have to dry it b4 storing or youve wasted your money. My 2 cents....

 

[wyoming556]

You might take a. Look at the range tent from David Ellis canvas. Www.cowboycamp.net. They can be setup in less than 5 minutes by yourself, no lie. His have an awning that keeps rain from coming in the door as well as optional fabrics and rain flys to suit many needs. They can be setup with a frame or just hang from a branch. They do great in the wind as well due to their shape. My 2 cents. Great thread.

 

[quarterhorse]

The spike tents from Montana Canvas are nice. Been using one for several years. Comes with a floor, poles, windows and fly. Add a stove and cots and you are set.

 

[Sytes]

Anything bigger is a serious PITA for one guy. I can do my 12'X14' in about an hour, from start to finish.

Curious, is it the floor install that takes so much time to set up a wall tent and (or) adjustable internal frame, Randy? For myself, I build the ceiling internal pole frame, slip the tent over it, crawl inside and place the wall poles in place (6 for a 12x14). Mallet / stone in 9 stakes around tent (4 on each side, 1 on rear door/wall) and 10 guy line (lines have toggle type ends - they slip though gromet tent holes and act like rock climbing cams) and stakes for the guy lines (5 on each side).
Alone I can set it up in 10 minutes. With another, it is up in no time... What additions do you add that take around an hour?

Oh and one other question, what is the draw back for two doors? Worst case scenario, keep it zipped / toggled and use it as a wall... Otherwise, makes a nice option for a rear exit / vestuble access? I understand the tightness factor for wind, etc - Though if it is staked, how is that different then the side walls?

I know you have the time / experience - assume there is some drawback that I am not catching... ?

Also, I have the same canvas - love it Sunforger 10 oz. great marine cloth. Mine was made at Big Sky Tent and Awning - Missoula Y junction area. The owner is great and always great service.

 

[Big Fin]

Curious, is it the floor install that takes so much time to set up a wall tent and (or) adjustable internal frame, Randy? What additions do you add that take around an hour?

Oh and one other question, what is the draw back for two doors? Though if it is staked, how is that different then the side walls?

I know you have the time / experience - assume there is some drawback that I am not catching... ?

By the time I select a spot, haul it out of my trailer, organize everything to make the process easier, get the floor snapped in, set in stove and pipe. organizers hung, sod skirt tucked in, canvas staked down at the base and on the guy lines, cots spread out, junk moved in, etc., I am getting close to an hour from start to finish. Maybe I am just slow, or maybe other guys just fast. Maybe they are measuring from the time they start assembly to the time they have the tent in the air.

I am sure the other items are just personal preference for the user.

From my experience, there is no way you can stake down the back door to make it tight enough to handle wind as well as if it is a wall with a buckle two or three feet up. If you did, it would be too tight use the zippers. I have had tents with both, and the second door is impossible to get tight enough when the wind starts howling. Then you just have a big canvas sheet that slaps and flaps all night long. And, you lose that entire wall for anything . Side walls are only 5' tall, while that big end is as tall as your tent.

Everyone will have a different perspective. For me, I know I am going to be there for a while and need to be as comfortable as possible. And when I pull stakes, I usually have one day of motel before another week in the tent. When doing back, to back, to back kind of trips, it is exhausting, so I try everything I can to make sure camp is as solid and restful as possible. That might cause me to go over board on my camp.