Teacher Concealed Carry Law in Idaho

[BackofBeyond]

I wonder how much training there is with driving our kids on the school bus? Nobody ever questions that they just smile and wave as a stranger drives off with there kids down the road at 55mph. Bring up guns and everyone gets emotional real quick.

My dad drove bus as a retirement/keep busy job. Had to get his CDL with air break endorsement. Not sure what all is involved with that, but probably more than the "enhanced" CC permit.

Plus, having a CDL comes with increased scrutiny on DUI, yearly piss tests, and recertifications. The CC permit here is one and done.

 

[Nick87]

My dad drove bus as a retirement/keep busy job. Had to get his CDL with air break endorsement. Not sure what all is involved with that, but probably more than the "enhanced" CC permit.

Plus, having a CDL comes with increased scrutiny on DUI, yearly piss tests, and recertifications. The CC permit here is one and done.

I've got a cdl as well. Not real hard, at least imo. Studied the common sense questions for a few hours took the test drove around the block and parallel parked a trailer. Point I was making is does anyone ever question if they're safe to be driving down the road with the kids? Do they get disqualified if they have a speeding ticket on there record? What about road rage? Growing up our road commisioner was also our school bus driver he was notorious for being at the local tavern between routes. Nobody ever talked about that much though, different times. I wasn't picking on your post at all. Just trying to make a point that people have car accidents all the time and we don't think twice about it. But when guns are brought up emotions take over, both sides of the argument. For the record I think there should be an awful lot of extra training required for this.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

If no teachers are armed there are zero bad shoots/accidents/negligent discharges. That number obviously becomes > 0 with armed teachers.

How many lives are saved with armed teachers? Are lives saved greater than accidents "created".

Would be interesting to look at aggregated school resource officer data, how many school shooters have been killed/subdued v. how many bad shoots/accidents have occurred.

I imagine that in police stations, military armories, etc. there are some number of accidents.

A quick google says there are 115,000 ish k-12 schools in the US and there were 350 school shootings.

.3% chance your kids school will have a shooting.

I don't have an answer here. I do think it's spending a lot of time and political capital on something that won't fix the problem.

Hard find good numbers but as @HuntTalk Freak stated Texas has had this law for a while, and
Texas hasn't experienced a meaningful decline in shootings.

This conversation seems like a red herring culture war issue that is far from a pragmatic solution.

 

[huntnpack]

On the criminal liability front, this conviction seems relevant. Seems like a lack of weapon retention in a school would carry a similar risk.

Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley, the Michigan school shooter’s mother, guilty of manslaughter

 

[Nick87]

Would be interesting to look at aggregated school resource officer data, how many school shooters have been killed/subdued v. how many bad shoots/accidents have occurred.

How many never happened because it wasn't completely full of soft targets. I think this is totally a mental health problem and needs to be treated as such but as @Desk Pop stated sometimes the schools hands are tied. I don't see the mental health problem being solved fast even if we approved funding tomorrow, and I wish it would. So in the meantime I don't see why you can't attack a problem from more than one angle. Crimes in low income neighborhoods are a cultural problem as well but I think it would be foolish to say those people can't protect themselves or loved ones because they might have an accident.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I wouldn't be so sure, when the shit hits the fan, getting shot at flat rattles some folks...

What empirical evidence can you, or anyone else, provide of that? Asking because i have a mind thats open to be changed - with evidence.

A mass shooter and a failed response that made things worse is a news story ive never seen.

 

[Desk Pop]

Your contention is that if an armed teacher accidentally pops a student or coworker in a school shooting incident they won't be held criminally or civilly liable because that bill says so?

Good luck with that.

I didn't say that and the bill doesn't say that.

The decision to engage or not to engage a school shooter is protected from liability. It is right there in the bill if you want to read it.

Teachers and staff would still be 100% responsible and liable for where their bullets go.

 

[BuzzH]

What empirical evidence can you, or anyone else, provide of that? Asking because i have a mind thats open to be changed - with evidence.

A mass shooter and a failed response that made things worse is a news story ive never seen.

Intuitively obvious even to the most casual observer. Never heard of friendly fire? Getting shot at can be stressful.

 

[longbow51]

I have a good friend who teaches and there was a significant threat at his school. They have one SRO (former police and military) who is armed, but the school is big.

He's a dead shot, can draw a pepper spray with one hand and a Model 29 with the other in 3 sec and hit the bullseye at 20 yards. (They were practicing for a trip on the South Fork of the Flathead; everyone else had 10mm, and he was by far the fastest.)

He and the SRO have talked about necessary training for armed teachers; few would qualify, but enough, they think, to provide a level of added security.

Otherwise, the option is to lock the door until someone shoots it open and then rush the shooter, a low yield scenario.

But, any bill would have to contain, as the ID bill does, protections from both criminal and civil liability.

As for the cost, most of the folks who are going to be interested are avid shooters already, so the only cost would be the occasional weekend course, and I'll bet the local Scheels/Sportsman's Warehouse, etc. would be glad to cover that minimal cost.

And everything is a statistical anomaly until it happens to you.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Would you trust 99% of Americans to guard your child?

Teachers are hired to teach, not be armed guards. There are other avenues to protect schools than letting ANY teacher carry a gun.

Kind of already do - don't I?
Last time i checked the requirements to become a LEO arent exactly stringent. Montana is an open carry state. So is wyoming (think that happened 10+ years ago).

 

[huntnpack]

I didn't say that and the bill doesn't say that.

The decision to engage or not to engage a school shooter is protected from liability. It is right there in the bill if you want to read it.

Teachers and staff would still be 100% responsible and liable for where their bullets go.

It reads like a Good Samaritan clause. If you screw up by doing something outside of your training or certification things could be bad liability wise. And we’ve agreed the certification isn’t much. I’d hope there were more formal trainings for this stuff even if they aren’t required.

 

[Sytes]

Simple off hunt season opinion:

To be armed as a teacher should require a reserve deputy requisite with quarterly scenarios based active shooter training courses and firearm competency qualifications.

Active shooter is a threat to our children and adults.

Meh, carry on.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Intuitively obvious even to the most casual observer. Never heard of friendly fire? Getting shot at can be stressful.

Sure have. In all of the places this is legal - where has this happened? Over the last 25 years - have carry laws become more or less stringent?

If its obvious in buzz world but never actualizes to reality, why does your "theory" on it matter?

 

[huntnpack]

As an aside on Idaho’s culture/perspective on guns and liability. I’ve had coworkers express a desire to carry firearms at work in our healthcare setting, but refuse to have tourniquets available or train laypeople with them citing liability for their potential misuse.

I lean toward training people and giving them the tools they may need, but apparently there was a double standard between tourniquets and guns lol.

 

[BuzzH]

Sure have. In all of the places this is legal - where has this happened? Over the last 25 years - have carry laws become more or less stringent?

If its obvious in buzz world but never actualizes to reality, why does your "theory" on it matter?

Is that you John Wayne, is this me?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

What empirical evidence can you, or anyone else, provide of that? Asking because i have a mind thats open to be changed - with evidence.

A mass shooter and a failed response that made things worse is a news story ive never seen.

No Jail Time For STEM School Security Guard Shamson Sundara Who Shot 2 Students While Responding To Shooting

The security guard who fired shots during the STEM school shooting last year -- striking two students -- will not face any jail time.

www.cbsnews.com

Police incidents

Video Officer killed in Borderline shooting died from friendly fire

Authorities described "chaos and confusion" at the Thousand Oaks, California, bar.

abcnews.go.com

Video NYPD officer slain by friendly fire to be laid to rest

Detective Brian Simonsen, 42, was shot dead while responding to a robbery at a Queens T-Mobile store on Feb. 12.

abcnews.go.com

HPD Releases Video Of 'Friendly Fire' Shooting

Harrisonburg police released body-camera footage Thursday of the “friendly fire” shooting of another police officer last month.

www.dnronline.com

Officials: Officer who was shot in hand was hit by friendly fire; man fatally shot by police ID'd

A Philadelphia police officer was shot in the hand during a struggle with a man inside a residence in the city's Kensington neighborhood.

whyy.org

Ft. Bend Co. deputy charged in shooting death of deputy constable

The charges against Deputy Chadwick McRae come nearly two months after Deputy Caleb Rule was shot and killed during a property check call.

abc13.com

Officer’s shooting was ‘friendly fire’

A San Diego police officer wounded in the neck during a pursuit and shootout in May was hit by “friendly fire,” or a shot fired by another officer, the department has confirmed.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Florida deputy shot, killed by friendly fire when suspect pointed BB gun at authorities, sheriff says

A Florida sheriff's deputy was shot and killed by friendly fire when a suspect allegedly pointed a BB gun at officers attempting to arrest her.

www.foxnews.com

 

[brymoore]

Kind of already do - don't I?
Last time i checked the requirements to become a LEO arent exactly stringent. Montana is an open carry state. So is wyoming (think that happened 10+ years ago).

I don’t have time to read all of this.

Police are trained to handle intruders. Teachers are not.

Open carry has nothing to do with this topic. Corporations do not let employees carry even if the state is open carry. Banks have never decided to arm tellers as the counter to bank robberies.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Is that you John Wayne, is this me?

Hahaha now that i know you like this classic movie - itll be easier to happily disagreee.

 

[Gerald Martin]

This issue is probably not something the peanut gallery is going to have the best answers for every school and situation.


My kids’ school hired a firm to assess risk and inform and train staff in an active shooter situation.

It was estimated that police would take 8-12 minutes to be on-site after a 911 call went through.

Teachers were trained in instruction of the the pros and cons of shelter in place or flee and are encouraged to use their discretion to make that choice based on their understanding of an unfolding incident.

All staff has radios to communicate and monitor situations in real time.

Multiple staff volunteers who already hold concealed carry permits are armed. Each armed staff member has a uniform to put on in the event of a shooting to allow responding officers to distinguish from staff or the shooter.

It probably won’t save all lives in the event of an incident but I think it better than no ability to protect and stop the incident from continuing unchallenged.

 

[Forkyfinder]

No Jail Time For STEM School Security Guard Shamson Sundara Who Shot 2 Students While Responding To Shooting

The security guard who fired shots during the STEM school shooting last year -- striking two students -- will not face any jail time.

www.cbsnews.com

Police incidents

Video Officer killed in Borderline shooting died from friendly fire

Authorities described "chaos and confusion" at the Thousand Oaks, California, bar.

abcnews.go.com

Video NYPD officer slain by friendly fire to be laid to rest

Detective Brian Simonsen, 42, was shot dead while responding to a robbery at a Queens T-Mobile store on Feb. 12.

abcnews.go.com

HPD Releases Video Of 'Friendly Fire' Shooting

Harrisonburg police released body-camera footage Thursday of the “friendly fire” shooting of another police officer last month.

www.dnronline.com

Officials: Officer who was shot in hand was hit by friendly fire; man fatally shot by police ID'd

A Philadelphia police officer was shot in the hand during a struggle with a man inside a residence in the city's Kensington neighborhood.

whyy.org

Ft. Bend Co. deputy charged in shooting death of deputy constable

The charges against Deputy Chadwick McRae come nearly two months after Deputy Caleb Rule was shot and killed during a property check call.

abc13.com

Officer’s shooting was ‘friendly fire’

A San Diego police officer wounded in the neck during a pursuit and shootout in May was hit by “friendly fire,” or a shot fired by another officer, the department has confirmed.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Florida deputy shot, killed by friendly fire when suspect pointed BB gun at authorities, sheriff says

A Florida sheriff's deputy was shot and killed by friendly fire when a suspect allegedly pointed a BB gun at officers attempting to arrest her.

www.foxnews.com

""The investigation has revealed that Mr. Sundara detained and disarmed one of the alleged shooters in the school hallway, possibly preventing further injury and loss of life. Immediately after detaining the suspect, he saw an individual dressed in street clothes in the hallway and spotted the muzzle of a gun. Mr. Sundara fired two shots in the direction of the gun. Although both shots missed the subject, who turned out to be a law enforcement officer, they went through the wall of a classroom where students were gathered."

So this is a black and white scenario where this clearly was a non net gain? I dont see it.
And then a bunch of cop related friendly fire, which isnt and wasnt my point. Theres so many police involved shootings (and its not the argument at hand) that an expectation of 0 friendly fire isnt an intellectually honest argument.