Sportsmen for Trump & the selling out of the American Sportsman

Ben Lamb

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
10,376
Location
Helena
Is that the team that runs states like Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, New Jersey?
I certainly have problems with how those states run their programs, but I'm not playing for them. I play for the team that tries to keep what we have, regardless of party or political affiliation.

Here are some recent examples:

SB 341: This bill was sponsored by the President Pro Tempore of the Montana Senate - a staunch conservative who has very different ideas on issues than I do, but he had a good concept (that was originally advanced by a member of Greg Gianforte's natural resource policy team). We worked closely over the session to develop a bill that should help unlock 1.5 million acres of landlocked public land for access to all Americans.

HB2: The main budget bill - I worked with Republican legislators to ensure that they understood why investing in our wildlife and public land agencies was necessary to improve willdife management and land management. That resulted in many new positions at DNRC for the Good Neighbor Authority, which improves public land management by allowing states to partner with the Fed on habitat improvement, wildlife-urban interface and improve overall forest health through thinning and stewardship contracts to take more trees off of the forests.

HB 760, which was a project between a Bozeman Legislator (Zach Brown) & a Dillon Senator (Jeff Welborn) to improve how we inventory and disseminate which roads are open and closed on state lands by creating a stakeholder process by which grazing lessees, timber companies, recreation and others could find common ground towards better travel management on Trust lands.

HB 260, sponsored by a Fort Benton Republican (Josh Kassmier) that increases the amount of money that can be awarded to community service organizations to work on state lands projects like noxious weed removal, improved trail maintenance, better watershed management and increased energy efficiency in schools and private residences. This same legislator carried a bill that I fought tooth and nail that would allow counties to decide whether or not certain species of wildlife would be allowed to exist in their counties.

SB 24, sponsored by a Helena Republican (Terry Gauthier) which is the first increase in state parks funding in almost 20 years, but also includes better funding for trail maintenance, fishing access and other key programs.

My personal politics notwithstanding, I don't care about the letter after your name when you're advancing good, thoughtful policy. I'm often mis-cast as a partisan, rather than an advocate for wildlife and public lands. That our politics has made this so toxic is sad, especially when there is common ground between both parties on how to get things done. We've ceded the dialog to the extremists and we let our own perceptions blind us to getting things done. This current administration has bought in to the politics of division more-so than any in my time in the conservation world. And they do it in a manner that is dangerous to not only our heritage, but to the future of the nation.
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,099
Location
Wenatchee
Is that the team that runs states like Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, New Jersey?
May I ask what exactly is wrong with Washington? I'm not a fan of the traffic but living here is actually pretty nice, salmon fishing is better than any other state in the lower 48. Deer hunting isn't bad, elk is tougher but the ratio of elk per sq mile is pretty similar to MT, duck hunting is great, chukar hunting is great. All the issues WA has are because of population growth, not specific policies. Did you know that WA is one of the few western states with more public land now than at statehood? Not only does our State constitution include language that the proceeds from the sale of state trust lands MUST be used to purchase more lands (ensuring no large net losses), but that recreation is a valid and worthwhile activity on trust lands, one that should be considered during both the purchase and sale of trust lands. Plus, we continually fund our WDFW to purchase more lands to concern more new wildlife areas.
 

375H&H

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,069
Location
Northern Wyoming
May I ask what exactly is wrong with Washington? I'm not a fan of the traffic but living here is actually pretty nice, salmon fishing is better than any other state in the lower 48. Deer hunting isn't bad, elk is tougher but the ratio of elk per sq mile is pretty similar to MT, duck hunting is great, chukar hunting is great. All the issues WA has are because of population growth, not specific policies. Did you know that WA is one of the few western states with more public land now than at statehood? Not only does our State constitution include language that the proceeds from the sale of state trust lands MUST be used to purchase more lands (ensuring no large net losses), but that recreation is a valid and worthwhile activity on trust lands, one that should be considered during both the purchase and sale of trust lands. Plus, we continually fund our WDFW to purchase more lands to concern more new wildlife areas.
Without getting dragged into the mud on this one too much, maybe you are not aware or were not living in Washington when they banned hound hunting for cougar, bobcat, bear, and banned bear baiting, as well as the use of body gripping traps via ballot initiatives.

Those are serious offenses to hunting opportunity that will never be forgotten by those who grew up there and watched multiple family past times be taken away by King and Pierce county voters.

Oh and wolves will never be allowed to be managed properly by sportsman and Washington absolutely annihilated what was once one of the greatest mountain goat populations in the lower 48 (check how many tags they were giving out in the 80s compared to now).

Maybe you didn't participate in those past times, but many did and none of those decisions have ever been rooted in science based management and are specific policies that eroded significant portions of hunting opportunities for all of us.
 

Gerald Martin

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
3,944
What is the goat population in WA today compared to the 80’s? More tags available is not necessary an indication of healthy goat management. For many years wildlife mangers set goat quotas with the assumption they reproduced at similar rates to deer and elk. It led to serious over harvest in many states, MT included. Goats reproduce slowly and as I understand it WA is ahead of the curve in setting more conservative quotas.
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,099
Location
Wenatchee
Without getting dragged into the mud on this one too much, maybe you are not aware or were not living in Washington when they banned hound hunting for cougar, bobcat, bear, and banned bear baiting, as well as the use of body gripping traps via ballot initiatives.

Those are serious offenses to hunting opportunity that will never be forgotten by those who grew up there and watched multiple family past times be taken away by King and Pierce county voters.

Oh and wolves will never be allowed to be managed properly by sportsman and Washington absolutely annihilated what was once one of the greatest mountain goat populations in the lower 48 (check how many tags they were giving out in the 80s compared to now).

Maybe you didn't participate in those past times, but many did and none of those decisions have ever been rooted in science based management and are specific policies that eroded significant portions of hunting opportunities for all of us.
I have heard much about the MT goat issue, which is terrible, though sounds quite similar to MT in the Root. WA has THE most conservative harvest on mt goats, but they're still struggling in a lot of areas. However, state wide we have a growing population and have added numerous additional hunt areas and opportunity over the last few years. The supplemental stocking of goats from the Olympics should add enough goats to really help the northern populations.

While the loss of trapping is regrettable, I actually think getting hound hunting back, for at least cougars, is a strong likelihood. I doubt baiting for bears will return, but I haven't had an issue finding them without bait.
 

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
5,496
Location
Montana
"Trump signs executive order declaring ALL private land attached to public now has public easement right of way to access any federal land!" I like it! I like it! Please link verification.

"Hunt Talk vocal Democrats cry foul! Cite social agenda would make all private land everyone's land therefore no need for "trivial" access to federal land." Was it painful to extract this false-toid from the gluteus maximus area?
Sorry SA, not available to kiss.
 

hank4elk

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
3,297
Location
SW NM
Just read who has what on their platforms.
Conservation. OUR Public Lands. Our Environment.
Edjumacate yursef.
 

Hilljackoutlaw

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
724
Location
Southeast Idaho
I don't believe that's what I was saying, and that's my fault if it came across that way. This administration is doing yeoman's work to undermine the bipartisan environmental stewardship this country has advanced since Nixon. That's a fact. If you'd rather defend the man than see the truth, I can't help you.
And unfortunately if you want to stay in your liberal doom and gloom bubble I can't help you either.
 

88man

Active member
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
526
Location
Pa
John,

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The bill that Trump signed (didn't work on, was 180 degrees from the budget he has proposed and was choc full of bipartsian and democratic priorities) didn't require the President to do anything other than write his name, yet he gets credit - for what, exactly? Not vetoing it? That's setting the bar pretty dang low, no? I don't mean to take away from the herculean effort that it took to pass the bill, and the groups who absolutely rocked it in getting it done, but we shouldn't have to take a decade to pass good bills that have strong bipartisan support because of some individuals want to burn down the world.

LWCF got reauthorized, which is awesome. But let's remember that it happened under a Democratic house. It took historic losses for the GOP to start to do anything closely resembling moving our sportsmen priorities. Until then, they let it expire. They failed to pass a farm bill which contains billions in funding for wildlife and habitat for how long? The declining budgets of our land agencies, and the budgets proposed by the executive in the last few cycles would have zeroed out LWCF, meaning NO action on those priority issues. Riders that attack species conservation, funding for habitat acquisition, management of lands, etc are constantly being offered and often times, accepted, to denude our agencies of their ability to do the job we ask them to do.

Congress, in their zeal to eliminate the same regulations they tout as the reason to drill on public lands, got rid of BLM 2.0, which put more power in local's hands and away from lobbyists and special interests. This new way of doing business on public lands would have put wildlife, hunting, fishing and recreation on a level playing field with mineral extraction, grazing, etc. That's real multiple use, in my opinion; not lip service to us during election years. Congress did this at the behest of the industry lobbyists who want to control your public lands for their own profit while leaving us to clean up the mess they create.

Both congress and the Administration have attacked the sage grouse management plans, which would have benefited over 350 species of native plants and animals in the sage brush steppe. That includes pronghorn, mule deer, elk and other species we hunt and fish for. In it's place, we get fast-track leasing which is the root cause of the Wyoming Range mule deer herd decimation from 2 administrations ago. We've moved away from a process that saved the best remaining habitat to one that encourages the leasing and development of it.

Eliminating key provisions of the Clean Water Act means poor water quality, less fish and more pollution in our drinking water. It means fewer ducks and geese in the future, and it means less and less opportunity over the long haul for sportsmen and women.

The appointments of Bernhardt, Zinke, Pruitt, Wheeler, Perry, Budd-Falen, and many others come not from our world, but from the lobbying world. These people put the interests of their clients ahead of the interests of the nation as a whole. They're smart (with a couple of exceptions) and they have a good strategy to keep us distracted with just enough bon mots & peanuts to make us think that it's ok, what they're doing.

The budgets - this is where it really matters. The last 20 years have seen major regression in how we spend money to manage public lands. The current administration has cut spending on management & conservation while increasing spending on development. LWCF was zeroed out under the first, second and almost zeroed out in the third, Trump budget. Funding for Great Lakes conservation was as well until the cry went up. EPA funding for enforcement of bad actors has been diverted elsewhere, and so we have more and more infractions happening, with no one guarding the public trust. What good are rules if there is no one to enforce them. It's not much different that how 2A advocates say - enforce the laws we have, and we'll be ok, then demanding that nobody be hired to enforce those laws. That's what's happening at the EPA right now.

The conservation community of Montana spent the last 4 months working hand in glove with Republicans on budgets for DFWP, DNRC, etc. We were able to advance a budget that had $59 million in new spending authority for Good Neighbor Authority (increased management of public lands), better access (Habitat Montana), new equipment for FWP as well as new capital construction for outdated structures, more specialists to deal with grizzly bears, wolves, elk & deer, and bison. We increased funding for access by $1 million through a new access program as well as increased funding for fishing access sites, state parks and trails. I'm not attacking Republicans or conservatives, just grafters who want to use us as props, rather than partners.
Come on man, THE ROOT CAUSE??? The deer decline is a dynamic problem with multiple burdens affecting the deer. Drought and severe winters, more predators, More cars, CWD, over harvest, subdivisions. The deer have declined in areas of no oil and gas production!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please leave politics out of wildlife management. Those who carry the gun afield care the most about habitat.
 

Tradewind

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
1,786
And G8bawana...u put a sad face on my post. The real sad thing on this forum is your need to post cartoons that mock our Lord and Savior. I'll defend your right to Express how you want, but I'll also keep you in my prayers that your heart not be hardened. I say this with love.
Got tired of it. I put him on ignore
 

hossblur

Active member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
115
Trump is using sportsmen. So? Did u miss Romney and Kerry and their photo ops with shotguns? Or Liz Warren suddenly become a public lands warrior as her poll numbers barely register. Why can't we use him? Some are. $fw loves him. Kuiu seems to as well.

Don Peay speaks for a minority of hunters in his own state. Truth is if not for the 200 tags at the expo, no one would know Don Peay. I'm sure Don Peay has elivated himself as a mastermind as to how Trump got elected, I'm guessing his campaign would not agree.

But lets face reality. The Dems are only better on land policy because their donor base, trial lawyers, haven't got a scheme to enrich themselves selling public land. However lets not forget, the teacher unions who are a major power in dem politics, are a driving force behind SITLA land sales.

In balance, Jr wearing camo, shooting guns, hunting(in whatever form) is a positive to our community. The alternative would have been Chelsea Clinton, what do we get from that?
 

wllm1313

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
4,067
Location
Aurora, CO
Trump is using sportsmen. So? Did u miss Romney and Kerry and their photo ops with shotguns? Or Liz Warren suddenly become a public lands warrior as her poll numbers barely register. Why can't we use him? Some are. $fw loves him. Kuiu seems to as well.

Don Peay speaks for a minority of hunters in his own state. Truth is if not for the 200 tags at the expo, no one would know Don Peay. I'm sure Don Peay has elivated himself as a mastermind as to how Trump got elected, I'm guessing his campaign would not agree.

But lets face reality. The Dems are only better on land policy because their donor base, trial lawyers, haven't got a scheme to enrich themselves selling public land. However lets not forget, the teacher unions who are a major power in dem politics, are a driving force behind SITLA land sales.

In balance, Jr wearing camo, shooting guns, hunting(in whatever form) is a positive to our community. The alternative would have been Chelsea Clinton, what do we get from that?
I can't want Trump, our president, to do a better job of representing hunters and outdoor recreationalist because Hillary wouldn't have done any better?
Well chit... I mean if that's the way we are forming arguments these days I guess I should just be glad Trump didn't sell all public lands the day he got into office because that's what Ted Cruz would have done.
 

Straight Arrow

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
3,013
Location
Gallatin Gateway, MT
"The alternative would have been Chelsea Clinton, what do we get from that?" Old stale schtuff; nothing there; move along.

Going forward, let's make it a point to question, pursue, prod, and demand support of public lands, access thereto, and wildlife from political candidates ... regardless of party, photo poses, or other campaign ploys. From all the posts above, I believe this group is capable of discerning the difference between campaign hollow rhetoric, as opposed to authentic support of public lands, wildlife, and hunting as demonstrated through actions, long held positions, verbal commitments ... as well as donning the camo.
 
Top