Sportsmen for Trump & the selling out of the American Sportsman

3855WIN

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Ben, we know how the animal got there. We’ve all been paying into the Pittman Robertson Act for years. Most contribute to conservation organizations. Some of us own land that provides wildlife habitat and have worked to improve it. Most of us pay high fees to states so that we can hunt them.
Instead of painting Jr as an enemy, maybe we need him as a friend.
 

Ben Lamb

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I wonder how much time Chelsea would have spent with conservation groups and hunting with people and advocating for hunters if Hillary had gotten elected. Wasn't Trump just a hero a couple of weeks ago for some sort of sportsman's issue win?
John,

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The bill that Trump signed (didn't work on, was 180 degrees from the budget he has proposed and was choc full of bipartsian and democratic priorities) didn't require the President to do anything other than write his name, yet he gets credit - for what, exactly? Not vetoing it? That's setting the bar pretty dang low, no? I don't mean to take away from the herculean effort that it took to pass the bill, and the groups who absolutely rocked it in getting it done, but we shouldn't have to take a decade to pass good bills that have strong bipartisan support because of some individuals want to burn down the world.

LWCF got reauthorized, which is awesome. But let's remember that it happened under a Democratic house. It took historic losses for the GOP to start to do anything closely resembling moving our sportsmen priorities. Until then, they let it expire. They failed to pass a farm bill which contains billions in funding for wildlife and habitat for how long? The declining budgets of our land agencies, and the budgets proposed by the executive in the last few cycles would have zeroed out LWCF, meaning NO action on those priority issues. Riders that attack species conservation, funding for habitat acquisition, management of lands, etc are constantly being offered and often times, accepted, to denude our agencies of their ability to do the job we ask them to do.

Congress, in their zeal to eliminate the same regulations they tout as the reason to drill on public lands, got rid of BLM 2.0, which put more power in local's hands and away from lobbyists and special interests. This new way of doing business on public lands would have put wildlife, hunting, fishing and recreation on a level playing field with mineral extraction, grazing, etc. That's real multiple use, in my opinion; not lip service to us during election years. Congress did this at the behest of the industry lobbyists who want to control your public lands for their own profit while leaving us to clean up the mess they create.

Both congress and the Administration have attacked the sage grouse management plans, which would have benefited over 350 species of native plants and animals in the sage brush steppe. That includes pronghorn, mule deer, elk and other species we hunt and fish for. In it's place, we get fast-track leasing which is the root cause of the Wyoming Range mule deer herd decimation from 2 administrations ago. We've moved away from a process that saved the best remaining habitat to one that encourages the leasing and development of it.

Eliminating key provisions of the Clean Water Act means poor water quality, less fish and more pollution in our drinking water. It means fewer ducks and geese in the future, and it means less and less opportunity over the long haul for sportsmen and women.

The appointments of Bernhardt, Zinke, Pruitt, Wheeler, Perry, Budd-Falen, and many others come not from our world, but from the lobbying world. These people put the interests of their clients ahead of the interests of the nation as a whole. They're smart (with a couple of exceptions) and they have a good strategy to keep us distracted with just enough bon mots & peanuts to make us think that it's ok, what they're doing.

The budgets - this is where it really matters. The last 20 years have seen major regression in how we spend money to manage public lands. The current administration has cut spending on management & conservation while increasing spending on development. LWCF was zeroed out under the first, second and almost zeroed out in the third, Trump budget. Funding for Great Lakes conservation was as well until the cry went up. EPA funding for enforcement of bad actors has been diverted elsewhere, and so we have more and more infractions happening, with no one guarding the public trust. What good are rules if there is no one to enforce them. It's not much different that how 2A advocates say - enforce the laws we have, and we'll be ok, then demanding that nobody be hired to enforce those laws. That's what's happening at the EPA right now.

The conservation community of Montana spent the last 4 months working hand in glove with Republicans on budgets for DFWP, DNRC, etc. We were able to advance a budget that had $59 million in new spending authority for Good Neighbor Authority (increased management of public lands), better access (Habitat Montana), new equipment for FWP as well as new capital construction for outdated structures, more specialists to deal with grizzly bears, wolves, elk & deer, and bison. We increased funding for access by $1 million through a new access program as well as increased funding for fishing access sites, state parks and trails. I'm not attacking Republicans or conservatives, just grafters who want to use us as props, rather than partners.
 

wllm1313

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I especially like how they throw the word "xenophobic" in there. Really gives the read some liberal agenda merit.
In some ways the parallels between Roosevelt and Trump are kinda interesting, Roosevelt's xenophobia certainly outstrips trumps and yet he is seen pretty much universally and one of the greatest presidents. Roosevelt like Trump was a Republican party outsider, who didn't get along with the establishment and was eventually ostracized by the party leading to bull moose party yad yad yad.

Why I find frustrating, with regard to the sportsman, is Trump's attempts to co-opt us while being un-willing to do anything to support our interests with regard to public lands or conservation. It seems like some of the members on this thread are forgetting that Roosevelt's conservation was incredibly unpopular with republicans at the time, in fact it was Charles Fulton (R) from Oregon who amended the Ag bill of 1907 to state "Hereafter no forest reserve shall be created, nor shall any addition be made to one heretofore created..." which drove Roosevelt and Pinchot to create the midnight forests. If Trump or Don Jr. want to take on the mantle of Roosevelt more power to them, but doing so will require them to take political risks, shooting sheep on 35k hunts in Canada does not make you a conversationalist.

Also as the appeal to sportsman is really an appeal to the average American, it's relevant to bring up the fact that it was Roosevelt that attacked the giant corporations of the 1900s with the Sherman Anti-trust act, who created the FDA, and who on numerous occasions lead the charge on prosecuting members of his party for misconduct, eg, John Mitchell.
 
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Ben Lamb

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That they see us as a voting bloc to be conquered, rather than support, and that they will lie to achieve their goals.

...the duopoly?
Absolutely. Both parties have their warts. The last administration did something tremendously well, and others tremendously poorly. Clinton was not the great environmentalist that people think he was, and Bush wasn't simply about raping & pillaging the sage.

But we're off the map with this crew, and they're in dangerous waters.
 

Ben Lamb

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This just in...

Trump signs executive order declaring ALL private land attached to public now has public easement right of way to access any federal land!

Hunt Talk vocal Democrats cry foul! Cite social agenda would make all private land everyone's land therefore no need for "trivial" access to federal land.
Charles,

I would. It would be a major takings of private property rights. Don't conservatives still value those? ;)
 

wllm1313

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Both congress and the Administration have attacked the sage grouse management plans, which would have benefited over 350 species of native plants and animals in the sage brush steppe. That includes pronghorn, mule deer, elk and other species we hunt and fish for. In it's place, we get fast-track leasing which is the root cause of the Wyoming Range mule deer herd decimation from 2 administrations ago. We've moved away from a process that saved the best remaining habitat to one that encourages the leasing and development of it.
Aside from the obvious environmental issues with this oil play is the fact that it's a pretty marginal play. Why are we sacrificing our public lands and venerable ecosystems to subsidize a tier 3 play. Assuming a natural gas price of $3 per MMBtu, you're breaking even in the powder at $39 a barrel, in the Permian, STACK, SCOOP your breaking even at $29, low $30s in the Wattenberg, Eagleford, Midland, and Bakken. In my mind the Unita and Powder are step out plays, only really profitable because of super cheap federal leases that really shouldn't be developed.

With 3,500 DUCs (drilled uncompleted) wells in the Permian that operators are waiting to frack until prices stabilize, i.e. millions of barrels a day that are poised to come online, explain to me why we need to destroy habitat in Wyoming.

I know that last year dry holes were drilled in the Powder and Unita, with modern technology that absolutely should not happen... maybe drill a marginal well that doesn't cashflow, but a literal dry hole... this isn't turn of the century wildcatting.
 
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406LIFE

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That there is a lot more to what we love than simply pulling the trigger on an animal we have no clue who it got there.

That to keep what our fathers & mothers handed us will take more than simply pulling a lever for a D or an R.
I completely agree with both of these statements. And reading from both sides of the debate is vital for understanding the issue. One must hold in check consistently against the politician, based on the issue; to do less is disingenuous of the cause.
 

Ben Lamb

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Aside from the obvious environmental issues with this oil play is the fact that it's a pretty marginal play. Why are we sacrificing our public lands and venerable ecosystems to subsidize a tier 3 play. Assuming a natural gas price of $3 per MMBtu, you're breaking even in the powder at $39 a barrel, in the Permian, STACK, SCOOP your breaking even at $29, low $30s in the Wattenberg, Eagleford, Midland, and Bakken. In my mind the Unita and Powder are step out plays, only really profitable because of super cheap federal leases that really shouldn't be developed.

With 3,500 DUCs (drilled uncompleted) wells in the Permian that operators are waiting to frack until prices stabilize, i.e. millions of barrels a day that are poised to come online, explain to me why we need to destroy habitat in Wyoming.

I know that last year dry holes were drilled in the Powder and Unita, with modern technology that absolutely should not happen... maybe drill a marginal well that doesn't cashflow, but a literal dry hole... this isn't turn of the century wildcatting.
It's about control of the land. The lease gives them preferential rights. it grandfathers them in if new regulations come along, keeping them from having to abide by them. Stacking leases is nothing new, and it's how we end up with fewer animals over the long haul, and more infighting as we seek to kill the last one.
 

Hilljackoutlaw

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What specifically were you hoping we would pick up on?
He wanted us to pick up the same thing every other article says that before Trump came along everything in the world was cha chas and ice cream, but now trump is here and everything is broken and it's all his fault.

Ben I agree with alot of what you say, but this bullcrap that everything in the world that's "bad" is somehow a product of trump's presidency is tired and worn out. People are sick of hearing trump's fault when you stub your toe on the way to the pisser in the middle of the night.

And last time I checked my mother and father didnt give me anything. God has given me everything in my life including my mother and father. As for how the animal that you have no clue how it got there...God put it there now ya know. And he will take them away along with the lands and everything else...not some politician with an R or D next to their name.
 

Gerald Martin

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Everyone has a belief system about appropriate land use and resource extraction that is not always subordinate to their love of hunting and fishing. I think only a minority of hunters make an honest attempt to consider how land use policies affect wildlife and humanity. Factor in a two party political system, human greed, mutual willingness of both parties to use hyperbole to advance respective world views and it’s no wonder that even hunters can’t agree on how to protect what we love.

I have no doubt that T Jr. is a serious hunter that isn’t just using hunting for the sake of votes. But,I also have no doubt that he is willing to advance his land use worldview by leveraging his hunting and aligning with other hunters who have a history of working against wildlife interests and Joe Public’s opportunity to access shrinking opportunities.
On the opposite side of the political aisle, I see plenty of policies that have a negative affect on things I care about as well.
 

Ben Lamb

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He wanted us to pick up the same thing every other article says that before Trump came along everything in the world was cha chas and ice cream, but now trump is here and everything is broken and it's all his fault.

Ben I agree with alot of what you say, but this bullcrap that everything in the world that's "bad" is somehow a product of trump's presidency is tired and worn out. People are sick of hearing trump's fault when you stub your toe on the way to the pisser in the middle of the night.

And last time I checked my mother and father didnt give me anything. God has given me everything in my life including my mother and father. As for how the animal that you have no clue how it got there...God put it there now ya know. And he will take them away along with the lands and everything else...not some politician with an R or D next to their name.
I don't believe that's what I was saying, and that's my fault if it came across that way. This administration is doing yeoman's work to undermine the bipartisan environmental stewardship this country has advanced since Nixon. That's a fact. If you'd rather defend the man than see the truth, I can't help you.
 

Gerald Martin

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Good one Harley! 😅 I have to say though that I much prefer political discourse with someone who is willing to own his political sympathies even if I disagree on an issue than someone who pretends to play on “my team” and uses an issue for personal advancement. I’ve always appreciated Ben’s willingness to own his views and retain good humor when it becomes apparent there is disagreement on an issue.
 

JohnCushman

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Good one Harley! 😅 I have to say though that I much prefer political discourse with someone who is willing to own his political sympathies even if I disagree on an issue than someone who pretends to play on “my team” and uses an issue for personal advancement. I’ve always appreciated Ben’s willingness to own his views and retain good humor when it becomes apparent there is disagreement on an issue.
Ben's just a sexy biotch that brings good beer to bear camp :cool:
 
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