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Something smells fishy about Montana Elk Hunt..

JoseCuervo

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Whiny Elk hunters?

Flathead Valley hunters shoot wolf, say they were surrounded
Story


KALISPELL - Two Flathead Valley hunters say a pack of wolves surrounded them in the woods Saturday while they attempted to retrieve a quartered bull elk, forcing them to shoot and kill a wolf before fleeing.

Because wolves are classified as endangered, federal wildlife officials are investigating the incident and will determine if the shooting was justified. Neither man was injured during the confrontation, but officials will focus their investigation on the credibility of the hunters' stories and corroborating evidence at the site of the incident.

"Nobody got bit, but evidently they felt sufficiently threatened or intimidated to the point that they needed to defend themselves," said Jim Satterfield, regional supervisor for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. "If a wild animal, a grizzly bear for example, or a mountain lion, attacks someone, our investigation usually doesn't focus on where the teeth marks are. We investigate the proximity of the animal to the person, and where in the animal's body it was shot."

"Obviously, a claim of self-defense is more believable if an animal is shot in the chest rather than in its rump," Satterfield continued. "But it's going to be up to the (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service) to determine if the shooting was justified."

Satterfield said he could not comment on the specifics of the investigation because it was now a federal matter. Officials with USFWS were not available for comment Thursday.
A game warden who accompanied the men to the kill site Monday reported that multiple tracks confirmed that a pack of wolves had been present, said John Fraley, FWP spokesman for Region 1. The elk had been fed on by wolves and a grizzly bear, he said.

Mark Appleby, 49, of Columbia Falls, and Raymond Pitman, 27, of Whitefish, told their story to members of the media Thursday evening at a news conference, saying they feared for their lives. The men were introduced and accompanied by several vocal critics of federal wolf management who advocated removing Endangered Species Act protections and returning wolf management authority to the state of Montana.

"They were in a frenzy," Appleby said of the wolves. "They were howling. It was eerie."

He, too, spoke in favor of wolf hunts and delisting the animal, saying he has now seen wolves on three occasions and was outraged about being forced to abandon his elk.
"There's just too many wolves," Appleby said. "We've got to hunt them because it's just getting out of hand."
***
A veteran hunter of 30 years, Appleby said he shot the elk Friday, Oct. 29, in a drainage of the South Fork of the Flathead River. The next morning, he returned to the kill site with Pitman to retrieve the elk quarters. Both men rode horses and saw no evidence that wild animals had ravaged the meat, which Appleby packed with snow the previous day but did not suspend. He and Pitman say they saw a coyote track and a wolf track nearby, but no other signs of wildlife - a sweat-stained hat that Pitman left atop the quarters to deter wildlife was still in place, he said.

After making lunch and drawing the horses nearer to the meat to begin loading the elk quarters in a pannier, Appleby said his horse, named "Shotgun," spooked. When he turned around, he saw between six and eight wolves "running at us 30 to 40 yards away," according to a written statement he filed with FWP.

He and Pitman fired rounds from a rifle and a sidearm into the air to keep the wolves at bay, but the pack continued to howl, scaring the horses and forcing the men to abandon the meat.

As they trekked back out to their vehicle along Deep Creek Road, having abandoned the quarters, backstrap and tenderloin, the wolves followed the men.

"We got about 50 to 75 yards down the road when the wolves were howling right next to us on the side of the road," Appleby wrote in his statement. "I said, ‘The bastards are following us, maybe trying to kill us or the horses.' I told Raymond to shoot into the trees at them as we were trying to get away down the road. And that's what he did."
***
State Sen. Bruce Tutvedt, R-Kalispell, who has been an outspoken critic of federal wolf management, appeared with Appleby and Pitman during the news conference Thursday. He said legislation being proposed by U.S. Rep. Denny Rehberg, R-Mont., is the quickest means of wolf delisting.

Both Appleby and Pitman said they're certain they only escaped unharmed because they were carrying firearms and rode horses.

"God saved us this time, but those wolves are still out there," Pitman wrote in his statement. "I won't go into these woods without a sidearm ever again. Those wolves were not afraid of us at all. They were killers."
 
Funny. We were in to wolves all of last week and never felt threatened by them, even when they were following us. Pretty cool to have a pack erupt in howls 200 yards from where your set.
 
You might want to read this thread before you take part in "population control" efforts.[/URL]

Personally I wouldn't compare the two. I know poaching is poaching no matter what. Call me an idiot but I would hate the guy that poached a wolf far less than I would hate the guy that poached a deer. Besides what idiot in his right mind would tie up a live wolf in the back of his truck. ;)
 
Those wolves are lucky I wasn't the hunters!!!! There would be no more firefighter pack.

I'm with ya on this one. I ran into what looked like a four hundred pound black bear in the pitch black at 20 yards while bowhunting elk this year. that does not even compare to this story. I dont think people or sportsmen know what they are up against in the woods with a pack of hungry wolves. I'll take the bear any day.
 
You might want to read this thread before you take part in "population control" efforts.

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=244506

Well, you see shoots-straight - the government is doing absolutely NOTHING about the wolf problem (Yes, I said it - PROBLEM) so someone has to do it. Sure, call it poaching if you like, but almost every hunter I know (Except Queervo, who probably doesn't even hunt) is fed up with the way things have progressed. First population goal was 300, then it moved up, and up and up and now there is no control over the wolves. We can't even hunt them even though when we did we did not reach the quota. Our game populations are diminshing (Check out the post on Western MT hunters heading east because of no game).

I'll gladly take the fine IF I am caught. Gut shoot em man - someone has to do it.
 
Sounds like a poacher to me. Hope you don't have kids, as I would guess poaching is one of the more common "hunting" traits passed along.


Wolves aren't considered "Big Game Animals" - they're damn predators. Wyoming has the right classification. Not the best way to go about it, but the right classification. Are you some kind of bleepin' bunny lover or something?

Have you ever even hunted in your life? And if you have, then you should be concerned with the way the wolves are completely changing the chain. If you do hunt, someday you might not be able to pass on the past time to your kids so I suggest you do some research instead of petting your rabbits.
 
Sure does smell fishy. But I think that they did fell threatened. I know Raymond Pittman very well. Grew up playing baseball with him. He has been known to tell a tall tell or two. But he is usually a straight shooter. If I had horses and wolves were near causing them to spook I'd be shooting. But I'd make sure I have solid evidence that i was threatened. I did find out that when they got back to the truck they call FWP and waited for the game warden to show up. To me that says they felt that it got out of hand. I guess I'll start calling Raymond "poacher" form now on.
 
If they really were protecting themselves then do it and shut up, less hassle. _
 
Well, you see shoots-straight - the government is doing absolutely NOTHING about the wolf problem (Yes, I said it - PROBLEM)


Actually the "government" as killed over 80 wloves in the Big Hole,,,Wisdom to the Centennial in the past 6 months.
 
I'll gladly take the fine IF I am caught. Gut shoot em man - someone has to do it


Up to $100,000 fine wolf murder, hope ya have the coin


".Wolves aren't considered "Big Game Animals" - they're damn predators."


Actually they are classfied big game animals in Montana, just like mountain lions and bears. Fact!


"Have you ever even hunted in your life? "


So does not condoning wolf poaching make a guy a non hunter?


These boys have the same problem as most of the SSS crowd,,,the third "S".
"
 
Up to $100,000 fine wolf murder, hope ya have the coin


".Wolves aren't considered "Big Game Animals" - they're damn predators."


Actually they are classfied big game animals in Montana, just like mountain lions and bears. Fact!


"Have you ever even hunted in your life? "


So does not condoning wolf poaching make a guy a non hunter?


These boys have the same problem as most of the SSS crowd,,,the third "S".
"

Well TJones, I certainly don't have that kind of coin, but I sure in the hell won't get caught because I wouldn't live the the three S's. I just shoot and leave. No shoveling.

You are right - FACT - classified as big game animals, but shouldn't be. They ARE PREDATORS. What don't you people get about this. Queervo seems to be part of the anti-hunting movement in my eyes. Always sticking up for wolves. Bunny lover if you ask me - just look at his picture - worth a thousand words.

I hope you enjoy your hunting because your great grandkids won't if the govt keeps it up. Oh, so they killed a couple of wolves because they are preying on livestock. Why do you think they are preying on livestock anyways? They've killed off most of the game. Sounds like you need to pull your head out of your ass too.
 
Well, you see shoots-straight - the government is doing absolutely NOTHING about the wolf problem (Yes, I said it - PROBLEM) so someone has to do it. Sure, call it poaching if you like, but almost every hunter I know (Except Queervo, who probably doesn't even hunt) is fed up with the way things have progressed. First population goal was 300, then it moved up, and up and up and now there is no control over the wolves. We can't even hunt them even though when we did we did not reach the quota. Our game populations are diminshing (Check out the post on Western MT hunters heading east because of no game).

I'll gladly take the fine IF I am caught. Gut shoot em man - someone has to do it.

We were able to hunt them in two states, just had a slight problem with a bunch of Welfare Ranchers in Wyoming legislature that couldn't come up with a plan to manage wolf populations.

In-bred poachers with attitudes like yours are what gives hunters the wrong perception and impacts our rights to hunt more than anything else.

I sure in the hell won't get caught because I wouldn't live the the three S's. I just shoot and leave. No shoveling.


Would you think bears and mt. Lions are "predators" or "big game animals"?
You are right - FACT - classified as big game animals, but shouldn't be. They ARE PREDATORS. What don't you people get about this. Queervo seems to be part of the anti-hunting movement in my eyes. Always sticking up for wolves. Bunny lover if you ask me - just look at his picture - worth a thousand words.

Might want to get your "FACT"s straight before you start trying to justify being a poacher.
 
You're right Queervo - let's just all love the wolves and protect them. They don't kill our game. Bears are scavengers, Mtn lions - predators. All I'm saying is if you hunt than you should be concerned about the problem. They are decimating our game herds. I and many others will take matters into our own hands. If you want to protect them then you are a dumbass - plain and simple. I'm not a poacher - I kill predators only. :D
 
If a pack of 6-8 wolves were within a 100 yards... I would feel threatened to the point of drawing my firearm and popping a few warning shots their direction several yards short..

If a pack of 6-8 wolves were within 30-40 yards... I would feel threatened of serious bodily injury or possible death and would shoot in self defense... ESPECIALLY after identifying the wolves progressed closer after warning shots at 100.

Their speed and unpredictable quick movements multiplied by 6 - 8... at 30 - 40... Their intent of circling their "prey" be it the meat or(and) horses or(and) their foe, the hunters... Leaves me to be concerned for escape... Trapped with 6-8 at 30-40... HELL YES! I would fear for my life or serious bodily harm.

Poaching is a loosely used term.
I do not know the two individuals though know of one through another friend who is pretty confident the meat of the story is true. They went to gather the meat - heard wolves... saw wolves... popped off a few warning shots... saw the wolves circle their area and move in - tightening that "protective bubble/barrier"...

I'll leave it to the investigation to reveal more about this incident... before passing on judgement. Though at face value - I would not view this as poaching.

If my nephews (12 & 14) were with me and wolves were as alledged... I would be DAMNED if I was not shooting to kill until I felt the threat was reduced to escape...

IMO, I believe several wolves would be dead if they were just "gung-ho, lets kill some wolves..." not just one...
 
Last edited:
Sytes,

Who said they poached the wolves???

I just pointed out that something "smells fishy" with the fact these in-breds in Montana didn't take care of the elk they shot, went back the next day, sat around, made lunch, etc.... Then, suddenly got scared, rode their horses out to the road, then shot wolves from the road.

Then, they show up at a News Conference with several vocal wolf critics? Just seems a bit "fishy".....

How often do you have a "News Conference" ???
 

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