AvidIndoorsman
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You can't use a chainsaw, but you can use solar panel to run your cell phone connected to a bluetooth speaker blaring nickleback.
S. 1695: Human Powered Travel in Wilderness Act
- Thread starter Nameless Range
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You can't use a chainsaw, but you can use solar panel to run your cell phone connected to a bluetooth speaker blaring nickleback.
There's a big difference between mechanical & mechanized, Charles.
bullbugle307
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With bison.
you mean except for all the moving parts, sprockets, brakes, gears, etc, right? Or have I missed some magical advancement of snow shoe technology over the last 40 years?
Irrelevant
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Ski bindings:you mean except for all the moving parts, sprockets, brakes, gears, etc, right? Or have I missed some magical advancement of snow shoe technology over the last 40 years?
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Which is the most mechanical and which saves the most human effort?
No. I mean by the direct definition used that currently prohibits cycles from our Wilderness areas.you mean except for all the moving parts, sprockets, brakes, gears, etc, right? Or have I missed some magical advancement of snow shoe technology over the last 40 years?
43 CFR § 6301.5 - Definitions.
No. I mean by the direct definition used that currently prohibits cycles from our Wilderness areas.
43 CFR § 6301.5 - Definitions.
www.law.cornell.edu
So ...where we at here.
Irrelevant
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A hang glider but not skis? I'm having a real hard time with that logic.
I'm not going to lie, I've never thought about where the line is drawn for technology in the wilderness, but now that I have, I think we have no choice but to shift the bar back towards more primitive use. Honestly I could get on board with no cell phones, no gps, no stoves, or water filters, no skis. I stand by snowshoes. You still have to walk down.
Or instead of picking and choosing we could simply say, anything available in 1900 is suitable for wilderness use. Or whatever date we choose.
I know the first response would be, "but what about safety?" Well damnit, I've tried my best to never cave into making it too safe. I like to travel alone and have never used a sat com device of any kind and feel like part of the wilderness experience is the inherent danger.
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We are at the crux of a movement that will further expand with the urban dweller rush, spreading their wings into areas bordering Wilderness, care of Covid.
Thus, the more pressure the MTB community brings, the tide will turn and an Amendment will be tabled with stronger conviction. Two years? Four years? No clue... Though it's building.
As we've shared (Ben);
Mechanical transport means any vehicle, device, or contrivance for moving people or material in or over land, water, snow, or air that has moving parts. This includes, but is not limited to, sailboats, sailboards, hang gliders, parachutes, bicycles, game carriers, carts, and wagons. The term does not include wheelchairs, nor does it include horses or other pack stock, skis, snowshoes, non-motorized river craft including, but not limited to, drift boats, rafts, and canoes, or sleds, travois, or similar devices without moving parts.
Mountain bikes that cause equal to and even less than the trail erosion damage by boots (USGS) - I view this as inevitable. I understand you and others may not though... to each his / her own.
IMO, I believe it is best to sit at the table and begin drafting equitable terms for (broad thought) 1. wildlife, 2. trail regulations / designation, 3. outdoor user fee that should be all inclusive for public lands. Funding to increase enforcement and research to keep this as a human powered means of "mechanical transport".
I always found it odd that no structures... oh wait, well we have our exceptions... the fluid exceptions made in...
"...An area of wilderness is further defined to mean in this chapter an area of undeveloped Federal land retaining its primeval character and influence, without permanent improvements or human habitation, which is protected and managed so as to preserve its natural conditions and which (1) generally appears to have been affected primarily by the forces of nature, with the imprint of man’s work substantially unnoticeable;"
I would be game if we really did preserve the Wilderness in it's natural condition. Absolutely nothing human developed. No trails, no hitching posts, no bridges, nodda. Keep it as pristine as pristine gets. That would be --- heaven.
R
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Straight Arrow
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The inconsistency and expression of diametrically opposed points of view, supported by out of context links, quotes, and bolded phrases is duly noted.I always found it odd that no structures... oh wait, well we have our exceptions... the fluid exceptions made in...
"...An area of wilderness is further defined to mean in this chapter an area of undeveloped Federal land retaining its primeval character and influence, without permanent improvements or human habitation, which is protected and managed so as to preserve its natural conditions and which (1) generally appears to have been affected primarily by the forces of nature, with the imprint of man’s work substantially unnoticeable;"
I would be game if we really did preserve the Wilderness in it's natural condition. Absolutely nothing human developed. No trails, no hitching posts, no bridges, nodda. Keep it as pristine as pristine gets. That would be --- heaven.
(Apparent first argument was "yes" to bicycles, now it's "no human constructed" anything.)
rocks, proper directional use of pine cones, and snow
Ben,
It's currently not legal to ride a mountain bike in wilderness. Hense it's written as it is... that's pretty obvious.
It's an arbitrary decision and one an Amendment would correct, imo
You have a noticeably challenging time with open discussion.
You ignore neffa's same comment yet target mine. You ignore my comment that exceptions are made for, "structures" and the whole primitive idea.
hint...
smile. It's an internet forum.
Straight Arrow
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Yes, I must completely agree. With all of your disjointed rhetoric and the challenging times, it's a wonder I can even use the keyboard.You have a noticeably challenging time with open discussion.
You ignore neffa's same comment yet target mine. You ignore my comment that exceptions are made for, "structures" and the whole primitive idea.
hint...
smile. It's an internet forum.
Charles, you highlighted a small portion of that sentence, and left critical pieces out. It's a flawed argument, my friend.
By changing it statutorily, you change the entirety of wilderness as a concept. That means you've just reduced protections on millions of acres of public land. It's the definition of anti-conservation.
That's not right.
That's why I suggest finding a better path forward, that doesn't eliminate Wilderness, but finds better places for mechanized uses. The Blackfoot-Clearwater has some good stuff in it relative to finding common ground with snowmobilers & bikers, while the RMF legislation provides a clear path forward to finding concensus through public processes. Why not simply meet those who oppose opening wilderness 1/2 way?
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