Ripping Apart Montana Roadless Areas

[Flynarrow]

Maybe new roads will alleviate the backlog of road maintenance throughout the USFS.

380,000 miles on NF lands isn't enough? Enough to circle Earth 15 time. And most have little to no maintenance. Guess adding more will make America Great Again. Kiss your long hunting seasons goodbye.....but you will be able to see elk down on private land from more vantage points.

 

[brockel]

380,000 miles on NF lands isn't enough? Enough to circle Earth 15 time. And most have little to no maintenance. Guess adding more will make America Great Again. Kiss your long hunting seasons goodbye.....but you will be able to see elk down on private land from more vantage points.

You honestly think roadless areas are what is keeping long hunting seasons in Montana? If that were the case eastern Montana hunting season would be a week long.

 

[Labman]

There’s a way they could make everyone happy. Log all that timber, and hear me out because I know this sounds crazy…just bury it. That’s literally what the libs want to do. Everyone wins.

https://www.forbes.com/APP_082023/F0820.CON.STRATS.Buried.Trees.html

 

[Forkyfinder]

You honestly think roadless areas are what is keeping long hunting seasons in Montana? If that were the case eastern Montana hunting season would be a week long.

I think thats what is keeping public land hunting in western Montana very decent.

If there's more (easy) access - i think it stands to reason elk will evade the area faster.

 

[brockel]

I think thats what is keeping public land hunting in western Montana very decent.

If there's more (easy) access - i think it stands to reason elk will evade the area faster.

You might be the first person I’ve heard call western Montana hunting decent these days. You think they will be open all season long? Out east here in Forest service the roads close before rifle and open after rifle.

 

[Forkyfinder]

You might be the first person I’ve heard call western Montana hunting decent these days. You think they will be open all season long? Out east here in Forest service the roads close before rifle and open after rifle.

Ive found elk on public land every year ive hunted and either should have had an opportunity and blew it or did have an opportunity.

Most of them have been quite a ways from a road.

 

[mtmuley]

You might be the first person I’ve heard call western Montana hunting decent these days. You think they will be open all season long? Out east here in Forest service the roads close before rifle and open after rifle.

I have hunted Western Montana my whole life basically. I would call the hunting here today decent. But it isn't easy by any stretch. Gated roads around here close on October 15th. I wish the gates were further down the mountain in my area. And someone mentioned no rare earth minerals in Montana. There's a proposed mine here in the Root that says otherwise. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

Most of them have been quite a ways from a road.

Shot my biggest bull right off the side of a gated road. 4 miles from the gate though. mtmuley

 

[Forkyfinder]

Shot my biggest bull right off the side of a gated road. 4 miles from the gate though. mtmuley

Should have clarified *open* road

 

[Nameless Range]

I have seen some surprising support for this from some folks. They are sick of the litigation and lack of management in places they think need it. I also believe strongly we need to manage our lands better. That means more logging, burning, treatment. I think it will result in better habitat chiefly, and the idea that it will meaningfully reduce wildland firefighting costs is a delusion. It will cost money to improve our public lands.

The chief issue as I see it though, is the laws that are leveraged to prohibit many different management tactics. The roadless rule is just a rule, subject to the whims of the administration in charge. What is rescinded today might just be implemented by the next doofus down the road. Congress needs to do its job and permanently change the way we do things.

But where are we headed? What trends are we seeing? More hunters, more recreation generally, better toys to get people further back, less access to private land, an outrageous backlog for the roads that already exist.

I think the abandonment of the roadless rule will likely not make hunting or outdoor recreation generally, better. Particularly in the long run.

When RMEF supported the roadless area release act 15+ years ago, they were flamed and reversed course. I hope a lot of conservation organizations remember the reasoning behind that. Not the flaming, but why they were wrong. It's damned clear what elk need and what they avoid. That said, it’s hard to read the room in this country right now.

 

[Treeshark]

Log all that timber, and hear me out because I know this sounds crazy…just bury it.

Interesting. Might not be a bad idea actually.

 

[SAJ-99]

And someone mentioned no rare earth minerals in Montana. There's a proposed mine here in the Root that says otherwise.

That was me. Sorry, yeah, right on the border with ID. Sheep Mt, if I remember correctly. I should learn my lesson about typing absolute words. Rare earths aren't exactly rare, just hard to find in a quantity that makes them profitable to mine. The main target haul is in the Arctic. Roads are needed there for both O&G and metals. There are a lot of roads already in the Root on both sides. I can't image how a RE mining project would affect the area from an environmental point of view. I certainly wouldn't think it would be positive. Economically, maybe.

 

[mtmuley]

That was me. Sorry, yeah, right on the border with ID. Sheep Mt, if I remember correctly. I should learn my lesson about typing absolute words. Rare earths aren't exactly rare, just hard to find in a quantity that makes them profitable to mine. The main target haul is in the Arctic. Roads are needed there for both O&G and metals. There are a lot of roads already in the Root on both sides. I can't image how a RE mining project would affect the area from an environmental point of view. I certainly wouldn't think it would be positive. Economically, maybe.

There are plenty of roads. And plenty of opposition as you can imagine. Pretty quiet as of late with what will happen going forward. mtmuley

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You honestly think roadless areas are what is keeping long hunting seasons in Montana? If that were the case eastern Montana hunting season would be a week long.

Yeah, I found that interesting too. The threat of hunt quality decreasing seems reasonable but the FWP shortening season because of decreasing hunting quality seems unlikely.

 

[MTGomer]

There’s a way they could make everyone happy. Log all that timber, and hear me out because I know this sounds crazy…just bury it. That’s literally what the libs want to do. Everyone wins.

https://www.forbes.com/APP_082023/F0820.CON.STRATS.Buried.Trees.html

This is being done in Montana currently. I’ve met with some of the people doing it about their survey needs. Seems very strange but apparently there’s big money in carbon credits.makes people feel good I guess.

 

[mtmuley]

Carbon credits. SMFH. mtmuley

 

[Montram]

We just experienced a wildfire first hand this summer, the Jericho MTN fire in SW Montana. It was just over a mile from my home. The reason that they were able to get it under control and stop it was because they have been doing fire management projects over the last few years, and that included new fire breaks, roads, and dead wood harvesting.

We put up with severe fire smoke hazards just about every year from fires in either Montana or Canada. The lack of the ability to build access roads to these fires and the accumulation of dead fall are a very real safety problems. This bill will allow the responsible agencies to better manage both. Anybody that doesn't believe that has not seen/experienced these fires nor the dead falls that are so common in our area.

The OP's initial post tells me that this is just a political issue for him. When he started this conversation by naming all the republican politicians that support this bill, then it's obvious that he is a sycophant for leftist ideology. I doubt if the OP actually cares about the issues that the bill addresses, this is just virtue signaling to politically active friends.

 

[Straight Arrow]

We just experienced a wildfire first hand this summer, the Jericho MTN fire in SW Montana. It was just over a mile from my home. The reason that they were able to get it under control and stop it was because they have been doing fire management projects over the last few years, and that included new fire breaks, roads, and dead wood harvesting.

We put up with severe fire smoke hazards just about every year from fires in either Montana or Canada. The lack of the ability to build access roads to these fires and the accumulation of dead fall are a very real safety problems. This bill will allow the responsible agencies to better manage both. Anybody that doesn't believe that has not seen/experienced these fires nor the dead falls that are so common in our area.

The OP's initial post tells me that this is just a political issue for him. When he started this conversation by naming all the republican politicians that support this bill, then it's obvious that he is a sycophant for leftist ideology. I doubt if the OP actually cares about the issues that the bill addresses, this is just virtue signaling to politically active friends.

I don't disagree that more wildfire risk mitigation is needed, however to think that enough roads can be constructed and enough deadfall can be removed from the millions and millions of acres of public lands to make a big difference by the underfunded, backlogged, now understaffed public land management agencies is just plain naive.

However, the emphasis on mitigating wildfire risk in the urban - wildland interface areas is viable and valuable for safety sake as well as for good forest management. But again, the austerity program to cut funding renders that emphasis merely a nice idea ... but ain't gonna happen to the extent needed to make a difference.

 

[elkduds]

More roads, trails and motorized access equals worse elk hunting.

New Study Shows 40% of Colorado’s Most Important Elk Habitat Is Affected by Recreational Trail Use | Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership

Geospatial analysis shows extent of overlap and highlights opportunities for responsible recreation management.

www.trcp.org

 

[SAJ-99]

We just experienced a wildfire first hand this summer, the Jericho MTN fire in SW Montana. It was just over a mile from my home. The reason that they were able to get it under control and stop it was because they have been doing fire management projects over the last few years, and that included new fire breaks, roads, and dead wood harvesting.

We put up with severe fire smoke hazards just about every year from fires in either Montana or Canada. The lack of the ability to build access roads to these fires and the accumulation of dead fall are a very real safety problems. This bill will allow the responsible agencies to better manage both. Anybody that doesn't believe that has not seen/experienced these fires nor the dead falls that are so common in our area.

The OP's initial post tells me that this is just a political issue for him. When he started this conversation by naming all the republican politicians that support this bill, then it's obvious that he is a sycophant for leftist ideology. I doubt if the OP actually cares about the issues that the bill addresses, this is just virtue signaling to politically active friends.

A person can be against putting more roads in roadless areas and for logging and safety. That doesn't make them a "sycophant for leftist ideology". Studies strongly suggest that more roads means more fires because more roads means more people and people are the main cause of fires.

I have hunted areas that had been logged and deadfall was still a major problem. Loggers don't take a lot of dead trees.

I'm glad you and your home survived that fire. I tend to think there are not many homes in the areas this would impact. And just to clarify, this isn't a legislative bill. It's just a rule change, that I have heard has nothing to do with fire management at all.

More Than 99 Percent of Americans Disapprove of Roadless Rule Rollbacks, According to New Analysis

A public comment period for the planned rescission of the Roadless Rule ended Friday with more than 99 percent of comments opposing the move.

www.outdoorlife.com