Quality Or Quantity?

[ElkNut1]

What's your mindset & approach to elk hunting? Aside from drawing a tough to get tag as most would hold out for a good representative of the area hunted. But other than that do most hold out for a particular trophy on General Season or OTC hunts? Or do you take the first legal animal because you don't come across many opportunities or time is limited? This is for bow or rifle hunting!

I'll say for me that these days I will hold out as long as possible for a branched antlered bull, it doesn't have to be a 6 point but I wouldn't turn one down either! (grin) By the same token I don't come across a lot of bulls in a seasons worth of bow hunting Sept.I may lower my standards as the season progresses depending on difficulty of hunt! All in all the first branched antlered bull is in trouble! (grin)

So what's your guys take?

ElkNut1

 

[the nikster]

I prefer quantity for the masses. I would like everyone to have the chance to harvest every year whether big or little. BUT I still hold out for bigger bulls and go home empty most years-but hey, I get to hunt every year!!

 

[Lawnboy]

I'm a sucky trophy hunter Usually if it's legal I'm shooting both archery and rifle. If I draw a good tag I will hold out to the end.

Nice that you finally show back up Elknut1. You need to give us an update on your Bitteroot hunt this year. You never called about borrowing the Crew Cab. One more season of not knowing what your missing out on.

 

[thecrittergitter]

Without question, wait for quality. Granted, to each his own, but if we had more guys holding out for mature bulls, well, simply put, we would have more mature bulls

For most general units I just won't pull the trigger unless i know the bull is clearly over 300". All things considered, If you have a 300"+ bull in front of you, chances are he is a mature bull. I see very few bulls over 300" that are under 4 yrs old.

For all the guys who are just looking for meat, go shoot a cow. I love elk meat and won't go a year without some so if I haven't put down a mature bull before the last weekend, i'll just go out and dump a cow for the freezer.

 

[ElkNut1]

Ya I think at one time or another during the season we're all suckers for that trophy we've built up in our minds-eye! (grin)

I did share about the MT hunt on a couple other Sites but not here I guess? There actually wasn't much to talk about, in a nutshell it was a bust, there really are no other terms to use! (grin) Bottom line, there just weren't hardly any elk there, we got into one bull & that was it, it was a herd bull with a few cows, we never saw him but had him to 50 yards but he was just over a knoll. The wind just wouldn't cooperate so we couldn't get any closer, I ended up challenging him to get him to "react" & come busting over the knoll for my son. We could hear him coming right at us after I screamed & my son drew his bow & the bull deterred just before showing himself & ran straight downhill. He was screaming a challenge of his own, the only thing I can think of that fits is there was another bull there & he caught sight or wind of him & rushed off after him to run him off, his cows followed & we never heard from him again! I don't feel we were winded, our position was good & we did wait him out for 30 minutes in hopes of them moving our direction before calling. I honestly felt an arrow would fly there! (grin)

The wind kept us from using the one method needed to have a great opportunity at killing that bull! But that's hunting! We never heard another elk or saw any after that one! We did not get there until Oct. 6th but I'd never go back to that area of the Sapphires again, there just flat weren't any critters there! (grin) Thanks for your comments! Oh, we did take 3 elk, so it wasn't all bad! We don't have any photos up yet on the Site but will get them up as time allows.

ElkNut1

 

[Lawnboy]

Thanks for the update Elknut. Most of the Bitterooters on here were warning you of the low numbers. I guess we were just hoping you'd found the honey hole. Always next year and maybe a different spot.

Granted, to each his own,

That's probably the key to the whole question. Everyone has a different reason and perspective in regards to hunting. I remember the guy earlier this year with the Elkhorn tag and was too worried about what others thought should be the trophy he should seek. In the end he shot a bull that he was happy with and that is all that matters.

Buzz summed it up best with his post in that thread.

"Heres the way I look at high quality tags...it gives you an opportunity to hunt areas with a lot of elk, high bull-to-cow ratios, etc.

All that equals having a fun hunt, with an outside chance at a truly nice animal. The nice thing about any good permit is the fact that you KNOW there are good animals to be had if you put in a solid effort and catch a break.

The couple good elk permits I've drawn my goal was to try for a mature animal. I found that after scouting and hunting my areas I got a feel for what the potential was and what I was willing to "settle" for. I would caution anyone to listen to what those without the tag in hand have to say about the unit you drew. Look for yourself and make a decision based on what your goals are and whats available to you. Also take into consideration how much effort, time, etc. you plan on spending on your hunt. Many people simply dont have 11 weeks to spend to find the best couple animals in the unit. If you have limited time, make realistic expectations of what you will be able to do with the time you do have.

I also think people tend to put way too much pressure on themselves with higher quality tags, maybe even expecting more than the area is capable of producing.

Dont forget to have fun, and make sure if you choose to shoot an animal its one you'll be happy with...be it a spike, raghorn, 300, 320, 350, etc. Theres only one person who has to be happy with the hunt and animal."
__________________
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=247759&highlight=elkhorns&page=2

 

[elk_hunter]

Along those lines...I'm in the boat where, if I need meat, I'll take a cow. Otherwise, I'll work toward a mature bull.

 

[Big O]

Alot of variables to answering that question for me anyway.

In eastern Wa. you can't go shoot a cow for just meat unless you draw a cow tag which takes years for the most part. You also have to pick your weapon, no switching as the season goes, which gives you 1-2 weeks early and late season. To top it off, most of eastern Wa. is spike only. The units you can hunts mature bulls in are either mostly private, draw tags only or there are very few elk to start with. So in Wa. I shoot the first legal elk I see.

When I'm in MT, I'll hold out for as good a bull as I think is real depending the situation. We hunt brow-tine or bigger areas. Not being able to pre-scout much and not hunting MT every single weekend plays a big part. I don't "think" most NR guys have the mindset of holding out for quality. I do try and wait for a respectable 5pt or bigger though.

 

[Goldtip]

I've never passed a legal elk with my bow. The way I've looked at it when bowhunting is this, if you pass on a legal elk with a bow, you just don't like eating elk that much, maybe I'm not a great bowhunter, but to me any bowkilled elk is a trophy. Just my 2cents. A rifle on the other hand is a different story for me, with rifle in hand I will hold out for a branch bull.

 

[StrutNut]

For me I dont get a chance to head out west all that often. I am in the process of possibly trying again in 2012. 10 years since my last hunt where I did kill a cow with my bow. The trip will be another trip of quantity vs quality. Shooting a big bull would be great but the first legal, if it is a good shot opportunity, will get an arrow.

 

[Bowhuntrben]

Since I have not yet taken an elk, I am looking for hopefully a 4x4 or better. After I have gotten one I might hold out for a bigger one, but I want to get a bull before getting real picky. I have passed up a cow before. Depending on the duration of my hunt, I may or may not take a cow in the future. I want to give myself the maximum opportunity at harvesting a nice bull, so I wouldn't take a cow early in the trip.

 

[skeeterforme]

Being from MN its probably a lot different for those who are close enough to scout and possibly hunt more time/areas. We usually get 4 days to hunt with travel, etc, I'd love to see a big one but when you only go every few years I'm not passing up a legal bull more than likely, probably the only one I'll see. BUT it also depends how far back I am too, if I'm 5 miles in I may think twice about shooting a small one, hahaha, long carry back!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Since you usually only get to take one animal, where does"quantity" even come into the picture?

I choose quality, every time with a quantity of one.

 

[AZ Ron]

Interesting question... I'm going to answer it in the format you presented it as well as answer the broader question that AZ has been dealing with the last 5-6 years regarding opportunity vs quality.

For me, so far I've only hunted AZ for elk. That will change next year if I don't get drawn (would be 3x in 3 years if I draw again). I plan on doing an OTC hunt in CO if I don't draw here in AZ.

Here in AZ you have to choose weapon, unit, and time of year for your hunt in the draw process. You are allowed one elk a year (if drawn). For the last 2 years, I've been blessed enough to be drawn for archery elk in September and have been able to take off 3 weeks for a 2 week long archery elk hunt.

In 2010 I had seen some pretty decent bulls in my preseason scouting, so I was holding out for a decent bull (for me that was 300+). I knew the unit very well and was pretty confident as the rut was rev'ing up early and I had some good bulls picked out in my week long preseason scouting. I ended up achieving my goal, shooting a bull I was very happy with the 4th day of the season. I'd passed on 2-3 smaller bulls before shooting this one. A disclaimer to this being I wanted to be successful, so my standards would have started dropping the later into the hunt I went. I would have rather shot a raghorn than go home empty handed (and thus an empty freezer).

For my 2011 hunt, I drew a decent unit with lower success and one I wasn't as familiar with. I had the same time allotment (3 weeks; 1 week preseason and 2 weeks during the season). However, this year I really wanted to help my dad out on his elk hunt and deer hunt in October, so I needed to finish up early in order to do this in order to save some vacation. During my pre-season scouting I didn't really see any big bulls. While my goal was still a bull over 300", I was mainly wanting a branch antlered bull. I missed a small 5x6 the second morning of the season and tagged out on a small 6 point (slightly less than 300) on the 6th day of the season.

I considered both hunts extremely successful and I accomplished both goals I had.

For next year, I imagine I'll end up in CO for an OTC hunt, not sure yet whether rifle or archery. My goal there will be to just be successful and come home with some meat, probably just allocating 7-9 days for scouting and hunting. My goals for each hunt depend on the quality of animals in the unit I'll be hunting, what my scouting shows me, and how much time I have allocated to a hunt. In the past I've usually wanted to go home with something before going home empty handed, but probably my next mule deer tag I'll be going home big, or empty handed.

Now, here in AZ back in 2005 or 2006, the AZGFD ran a survey asking whether people wanted quality (drawing less often but having higher bull/cow ratios and better trophy potential) or more quantity (opportunity in the form of getting a tag). The public responded that they wanted to get a tag more often. While this increased the draw odds, I think it has made the hunts suffer greatly in quality, and I'm not just meaning the size of the animals harvested, but more from the quality of hunt (how many people are afield and how many animals are seen). I've been helping out on the archery and Nov rifle hunts as well as a few of the cow hunts and limited opportunity hunts the last 5-6 years here in AZ and can honestly say that the quality of the hunt has decreased over the years. The hunts are getting a little tougher (imo) and having 400+ guys with 2-3 of their closest buddies in several units gets old. I think the November rifle hunts have suffered the worst. I think (and hope) the AZ public is realizing they aren't liking the opportunity they asked for and are slowly wanting it turned back around. But, I've also talked to a few guys who have their honey holes and are willing to do the work to be successful and have the chance to get drawn more often. I still think the 20% of the hunters harvest 80% of the animals still applies in AZ and the average hunter is starting to get frustrated at now finally having a tag but not seeing any elk to put it on.

I guess I'm the opposite and would rather wait 3-5 years (in a non 'trophy' unit) for a quality hunt (bigger class animals and less people). This probably isn't what you were referring to in your question, but has been on my mind for a while, especially after helping out on this year's November elk hunt here in AZ.

Ron

 

[6speed]

I figure until I get my first with a bow I won't put in for the rifle tag again. That said I will take the first elk I can get with my bow and work my way up.

 

[ElkNut1]

Lawnboy, yes you & others did mention how bad & sad the hunting had become in that area, I was not doubting you folks at all, that hunt was to hunt elk yes but more importantly it was an evaluation of this Outfitters Setup! That was the main reason we were there! We did accomplish that! (grin) I could've used pack out this way! (grin)

Greenhorn, I was referring to the big picture here! Not one year of elk hunting but 20 years running per-say! If a guy hunts mostly OTC Public Land especially bowhunters you will be hard pressed to find a hunter in 90% success range for that duration, if he is there's generally some cows, spikes & raggies in the mix. That's Quantity!---- Now if a hunter wishes to hold out for at least a 265" bull + in that 20 years span his success rate would no doubt drop tremendously, this would be not for a single hunter but again for the general populous. So, as a hunter how much do you like elk meat! (grin)

I'm in the all elk are trophies group! However, my son & I have taken quite a few elk as has the crew, we do like holding out for branched antler bulls but the areas we hunt are nothing like they were even 10 years ago, Idaho has been hit extremely hard by the wolves in west central Id.

AZ Ron, good stuff there, I appreciate your break down & how you rationalize your feelings depending on your hunts! Thanks!

ElkNut1

 

[shoots-straight]

What's your mindset & approach to elk hunting? Aside from drawing a tough to get tag as most would hold out for a good representative of the area hunted. But other than that do most hold out for a particular trophy on General Season or OTC hunts? Or do you take the first legal animal because you don't come across many opportunities or time is limited? This is for bow or rifle hunting!

I'll say for me that these days I will hold out as long as possible for a branched antlered bull, it doesn't have to be a 6 point but I wouldn't turn one down either! (grin) By the same token I don't come across a lot of bulls in a seasons worth of bow hunting Sept.I may lower my standards as the season progresses depending on difficulty of hunt! All in all the first branched antlered bull is in trouble! (grin)

So what's your guys take?

ElkNut1

That pretty much is my approach. I hope for the best, but know to expect the worst every year.

The Root "USE" to be a great area to hunt elk in. That was before all the predators, and our livestock Industry, imposed elk limit. The Sapphire area you hunted is above Elk objective levels as indicated by the EMP. So it's not going to get any better unless we demand to revisit that plan.

A mere decade ago, I could hunt up in the Sapphire range, and on any bow season expect to call in around 20 + bulls a year. That's now down to a couple.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I still don't see where "quantity" comes into this equation. Why not ask, will you shoot any young raghorn because where you might be hunting might have fewer old bulls? Or if you don't have enough time or interest to be selective, or you can't bear the thought of not actually killing an animal, do you nail the first legal one you can? Or since you hunt with a bow will you shoot a 3 year old 6-point bull because it's more of a trophy to you? Or easier yet, how picky are you? I think that's what your getting at-right?

My answer's still the same. If I killed a run of the mill 6 point bull during the early archery season, I'd want to do harakiri because I'd be sitting home for another couple months when I could be out hunting. I'm lucky to live in MT where there's just piles of high quality public land general places to hunt for like 5 weeks of archery and 5 weeks of rifle. For me, most times, I've got to think it's like 330 or so before I want to try and get him.

 

[idnative1948]

Some others have expressed it best by saying it depends how much time you have to hunt. If you only have seven days per year (and sometimes only five) it doesn't give you a lot of choices. Some times you get lucky in that length of time, but more often than not it is tag soup if you don't take what every presents itself.

 

[Lawnboy]

The way I see quality versus quantity is in the types of hunts and seasons. Like greenhorn said Montana has both, quantity in the number of days but also quality if you can spend the time and get lucky. If asked do I want Utah quality or Montana quantity I would take the Montana scenario. I'd rather die than be one of 20 guys sitting in a picture because I was the spotter and couldn't get a tag. Id rather have a chance at a 300+ bull every year than a once in a lifetime chance at a 390 bull.