Points Schemes

[QuazyQuinton]

i also think about how my kids (that are unborn) may barely have any opportunity to grab a half decent tag

This is a double-edged sword. Some people say point systems will prevent your unborn kids from ever drawing a really good tag. The flip side is that with only a random draw, your unborn kids could easily apply all their lives for a glory tag with 1% random draw odds and never draw it that way either. "Just think, son, you've been applying for a really great tag since you were 12 years old. I know you haven't actually had a chance to get into the woods since you've never drawn, but isn't hunting the greatest thing? Don't you just love the anticipation of draw results day? Maybe next year you'll be successful!"

QQ

 

[TOGIE]

This is a double-edged sword. Some people say point systems will prevent your unborn kids from ever drawing a really good tag. The flip side is that with only a random draw, your unborn kids could easily apply all their lives for a glory tag with 1% random draw odds and never draw it that way either. "Just think, son, you've been applying for a really great tag since you were 12 years old. I know you haven't actually had a chance to get into the woods since you've never drawn, but isn't hunting the greatest thing? Don't you just love the anticipation of draw results day? Maybe next year you'll be successful!"

QQ

very true. it's complicated like everything else.

i guess what may be harder for the young buckeroo to hear? "sorry son, I worked the math, you'll never get to chase giant bulls in that unit because of point creep" or "well son, that odds are slim, but you might get to hunt giant bulls in there"

obviously points still work out to grab decent tags here or there, just not glory tags - but as i've said, i fear for even those units too

things still work out to hunt every year for the most part, especially if you live in a western state. but it's a bit of a runaway train in some respects

 

[Elkmagnet]

I would vote to do away with points. Young people shouldn't be 30 points behind the curve due to the date of their birth.

Absolutely!
I would give up my points. Without a doubt.

 

[azelkhntr]

The cost to put in for a PP or BP is minimal. The State only charges for what the processing fees are. I find the system works just fine and fair for everyone. Didn't draw, buy the OTC tag. The State has to control the number of tags somehow and these so-called "schemes" work. Don't like it then don't apply for them. Easy peezy. Buschy is spot on imo.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I am one of the 50 YO guys who has been in the points game, in most western states, for 23 years. Not interested in doing away with it.

It sounds like some of you want to “socialize” the preference point systems and redistribute the “wealth” (my accrued PPs) to others. How do you propose to make me whole when you accomplish this? Maybe your response is “Too bad Buschy you were a sucker for applying religiously every year and spending tens of thousands of dollars. Here is a t-shirt...thanks for playing”. I am curious how those who want to do away with PPs would reply?

As long as you get yours.

 

[Buffs35]

I always thought you shouldn't get a preference point if you received a tag. Use your points if it's your first choice. Don't have to use your points if you pick one up in secondary or leftovers, but you can't also get another point. Have to choose one. Won't happen because $$$$$.

 

[NoWiser]

The cost to put in for a PP or BP is minimal. The State only charges for what the processing fees are. I find the system works just fine and fair for everyone. Didn't draw, buy the OTC tag. The State has to control the number of tags somehow and these so-called "schemes" work.

You aren't serious, are you? I'm in it for north of $600 this year for points in 4 states, and I don't build points for sheep, goat, or moose.

 

[smw110136]

The cost to put in for a PP or BP is minimal. The State only charges for what the processing fees are. I find the system works just fine and fair for everyone. Didn't draw, buy the OTC tag. The State has to control the number of tags somehow and these so-called "schemes" work. Don't like it then don't apply for them. Easy peezy. Buschy is spot on imo.

Minimal? Last I checked, non-residents applying for all big game species in Colorado are paying around $500 if you want to keep the points. I guess "minimal" is a relative term...

Now add to that the cost to apply in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Utah. I'm not complaining, its my choice to apply and use my hard-earned money and I accept that. But minimal isn't the word most of us would choose to describe the investment in point systems

I don't have the answer either. I don't agree with changing things and screwing over long time point holders, but I also think there are better ways to improve odds for all applicants while also maximizing revenue for the state.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

I think we all know the real answer to this dilemma. Put more animals on the mountain. This would allow a few mid-tier units to move up to top-tier and more low-tier hunts to move up to mid-tier. More animals, more choices, more tags, more opportunity. Now if we could just figure out how to do that....

QQ

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I would only give up the points if I had an additional 4 weeks of vacation. Lol

Points make it nice to try and plan things out with the vacation that I do have.

Creep on units that you have over the max in. Like I did last year in Colorado for deer.

Share points with a buddy that generally doesn't hunt that much. Like I did the year before in Utah for deer.

Build points with no intent to hunt out of state this season. Like I did the year before that.

If I have an open year, then I can use them to try and shoot for the moon. Like in Nevada, Utah, & Arizona the year before that.

I get why people don't like them and I get why they are in place.

 

[Ajax2744]

The only problem I have with random draws is when a lucky 15 year old kid draws a great tag a bunch of old guys start complaining that it's not fair cause they've been putting in for 50 years

 

[Zim]

My long term plan is moving right along. I am being held hostage in too many states with too many points. So I have been working on an exit strategy from the worse values. Dumped WY sheep & cashed moose. Drew NH moose and quit there. Burned OR elk last year and 44 deer & lope points this year so I’ve officially exited there as well. I’ve cut a LOT of non refundable fat from my schedule with more to come! Next target is Utah.

 

[TOGIE]

The only problem I have with random draws is when a lucky 15 year old kid draws a great tag a bunch of old guys start complaining that it's not fair cause they've been putting in for 50 years

to that, i would say, so eloquently "sucks to suck"

but also, it is fair, because it's random

well let me edit this: the random draw, by design, is not fair at all, and that's what's so fair about it. fair because everyone has a chance, not fair because any schmo can go

 

[Keeptrying]

I am one of the 50 YO guys who has been in the points game, in most western states, for 23 years. Not interested in doing away with it.

It sounds like some of you want to “socialize” the preference point systems and redistribute the “wealth” (my accrued PPs) to others. How do you propose to make me whole when you accomplish this? Maybe your response is “Too bad Buschy you were a sucker for applying religiously every year and spending tens of thousands of dollars. Here is a t-shirt...thanks for playing”. I am curious how those who want to do away with PPs would reply?

Is there a model in place to make whole the generation about to start buying points in South Dakota to compensate them for the cubing of points by those who whined the loudest to the SDGFP commission? No there is not. Just proof that even bonus points will be hijacked by the most selfish among us.

Eh, just stupid kids anyway. Amiright?

 

[VikingsGuy]

The only problem I have with random draws is when a lucky 15 year old kid draws a great tag a bunch of old guys start complaining that it's not fair cause they've been putting in for 50 years

Is saving the old guys complaining worth telling all future hunters not to even bother?

 

[Ajax2744]

Is saving the old guys complaining worth telling all future hunters not to even bother?

My comment was more tongue in cheek lol.
I am all for a random draw. I'm not one to complain because I didn't get my way in a 100% even playing field. And to people who say it's not fair because they have been waiting x amount of years well then I say... Well life's not fair and I would imagine the gray hairs of the world would have realized that by now.

 

[azelkhntr]

You aren't serious, are you? I'm in it for north of $600 this year for points in 4 states, and I don't build points for sheep, goat, or moose.

No I'm not serious; I'm Tom. Your choice to put in for all that dough; yours. No ones holding a gun to your head. I'm beginning to suspect that a lot of youse guys think you're entitled to tags because you're throwing so much money in the game. There's no whiners in hunting

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I am one of the 50 YO guys who has been in the points game, in most western states, for 23 years. Not interested in doing away with it.

It sounds like some of you want to “socialize” the preference point systems and redistribute the “wealth” (my accrued PPs) to others. How do you propose to make me whole when you accomplish this? Maybe your response is “Too bad Buschy you were a sucker for applying religiously every year and spending tens of thousands of dollars. Here is a t-shirt...thanks for playing”. I am curious how those who want to do away with PPs would reply?

If I were master of the universe?

I would link all the state systems.

You only get to apply for one state per species, so if you put in for CO mule deer that's it for mule deer for you across the board in limited units. All states can run leftover lists and you can pull tags off those with no national cap. So you could get a WY left over Mt left over etc.

For all limited entry tags, those 10% chance of success or above are straight lottery. Tags below 10% success are 5 pref points then straight lottery above that number aka CO system for MSG but with no pref points. Tags above 1% are once in a lifetime harvest. You can only draw 1 MSG nationwide (you can do slams, but not 3 desert sheep).

Anyone in the system already, all your points become bonus points, you can consolidate your points between species (within a state). So you could allocate all your points to sheep and have 120 sheep bonus points in MT. No new points are allowed except for the skin in the game points outlined above, which don't increase your odds but just allow you to participate in the draw. If you stop applying 1 year for those skin in the game points you start from scratch.

Goal would be lots of tags on leftover lists and try to distribute the coveted tags around, you would be throwing the people who played the game a bone by hopefully guaranteeing them some great tags. Hopefully ^ that would be a system that would still be sustainable 40 years from now.

 

[azelkhntr]

Lets all be grateful we even have the opportunity to hunt across this land at all. It could all be locked up for the rich and influential you know. Stop sniveling about it. The system works just fine imo.

 

[Werty]

I knew the rules too the game before I started, and I still continue to play. On a side note. Just because you draw a great tag, doesn't mean you become a better hunter. I know people who can't kill a raghorn with a OIL tag.