Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[antlerradar]

$77 to hunt deer, elk, bear, birds and fishing for a year. For another $14 total - you can apply for both limited deer/elk permits. Come on. That’s messed up.

I bought 2 lift tickets at the local ski hill yesterday..

View attachment 174264

That is $411.84 more than I will ever spend on the ski hill. Gets in the way of shed hunting.

 

[SAJ-99]

Looks like it went through with some amendments. New NR draw in December if you want to pay extra $300.

https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...tent=3d365b988e386a2b535ba7c8cc5d7b3d123da797

 

[8andcounting]

Looks like it went through with some amendments. New NR draw in December if you want to pay extra $300.

https://billingsgazette.com/outdoors/bill-that-would-have-guaranteed-nonresident-hunting-licenses-for-outfitters-amended/article_e08e4364-b398-51bd-bc32-a45c389e94e2.html#utm_source=billingsgazette.com&utm_campaign=/newsletter-templates/news-alert&utm_medium=PostUp&utm_content=3d365b988e386a2b535ba7c8cc5d7b3d123da797

Well I thought this was good news but I’m not sure .... now if I want to have 2 chances (drawings) to draw a NR combo tag I can enter the draw in December . I like the knowing by January 15th part . But now a big game combo will cost me $1500 . Looks like a sad grab for another $300 from NR . If a guy goes this route it’ll cost him $1000 now to shoot a mule deer buck ...... I stick with my previous post , apps will be down . I honestly think in the not so distant future (5years or less) there’ll be combo tags sold as leftovers again

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Well I thought this was good news but I’m not sure .... now if I want to have 2 chances (drawings) to draw a NR combo tag I can enter the draw in December . I like the knowing by January 15th part . But now a big game combo will cost me $1500 . Looks like a sad grab for another $300 from NR . If a guy goes this route it’ll cost him $1000 now to shoot a mule deer buck ...... I stick with my previous post , apps will be down . I honestly think in the not so distant future (5years or less) there’ll be combo tags sold as leftovers again

I don’t follow.. why would apps be down when nothing would change with the majority of licenses?

 

[Flatrock]

Well I thought this was good news but I’m not sure .... now if I want to have 2 chances (drawings) to draw a NR combo tag I can enter the draw in December . I like the knowing by January 15th part . But now a big game combo will cost me $1500 . Looks like a sad grab for another $300 from NR . If a guy goes this route it’ll cost him $1000 now to shoot a mule deer buck ...... I stick with my previous post , apps will be down . I honestly think in the not so distant future (5years or less) there’ll be combo tags sold as leftovers again

Assuming at least some of the combo tags would still be available at current prices, I couldn't disagree more on apps going down. Apps going down would largely defy the trend of every state for every species for every year the past 10+ years. I would love to bet anyone and everyone who thinks there will be leftovers in 5 years.

 

[brownbear932008]

There are elk leftovers now and I was offered one twice last year on the leftover list think I was way down the list as well. It's been that way pretty much since I161. I'll say this though there will never be a day I will pay $1,000 to hunt a deer in Montana or any other state as far as that goes. As a matter of fact I've never paid the 650ish price. The deer/elk combo not to crazy for what you get but it's close to crazy. I really hope I can burn my elk points there this fall.

Having said all that there are always some people going to pay entirely to much for a piece of paper and an opportunity to shoot that 170 in the Custer. If you do a comparison to other Western states residents are getting tag welfare as much as the outfitters in Montana as has been stated in numerous threads here on HT by residents who believe the same. I can't say this legislation as it stands today is a win but it is better than what was proposed.
I have a few buddies that have been in the landowner tag program for several years. Does anyone know if the new early draw is going to cost the extra $300 for those guys? If so they are toast they are barely doing it now on carpenter budgets.

 

[WIbiggame]

I stick with my previous post , apps will be down . I honestly think in the not so distant future (5years or less) there’ll be combo tags sold as leftovers again

I have to disagree with you as well. WY does this exact thing with their special draw and are still growing 0.5points a year to get a tag and the special went from helping you by 2-3yrs to giving you a tag 1yr early.

The only way I see apps going down persay is in the 2nd regular priced draw. People with a lot of LE points would be wise to apply in the early draw to "guarantee" themselves their tag to get into the LE draw. So therefore maybe fewer people would be in the regular draw trying to get a LE permit.

I would venture to guess that returned tags (not drawing your LE permit) will be drastically less if this makes it all the way.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Assuming at least some of the combo tags would still be available at current prices, I couldn't disagree more on apps going down. Apps going down would largely defy the trend of every state for every species for every year the past 10+ years. I would love to bet anyone and everyone who thinks there will be leftovers in 5 years.

Under the amended bill, 60% of the statutorily approved B10 & B11 licenses would be available for the General Draw. The Commission may increase the early draw to 50%, but it's set in statute as 40%.

I looked around and MT would still be a deal on the Deer/Elk Combo at $1400. WY charges close to $1200 for their early elk only license. Combining Deer & Elk in other states gets you darn close, if not slightly above, current pricing for the B10.

I do think the B11 is overpriced with the early bird special, and could see fixing that to come down to $150 or so.

The bill is a long way from being done, so keep posting thoughts on how it would work better, or continue to voice your opposition. The Legislature needs to continue to hear from folks.

The bill is in Senate Finance & Claims today, so if you plan on commenting, keep your comments to the money, not the policy or politics. F&C members only care about the money.

 

[NDGuy]

So if the current bill passes with the $300 early application fee, does that extra fee also fall under the 80% refund rule I assume?

Tough pill for those only wanting to do LE Elk in the future. You basically pay $300 just for the chance to draw a LE tag unless you decide to hunt the general combo.

 

[Big Fin]

The bill is a long way from being done, so keep posting thoughts on how it would work better, or continue to voice your opposition. The Legislature needs to continue to hear from folks.

The bill is in Senate Finance & Claims today, so if you plan on commenting, keep your comments to the money, not the policy or politics. F&C members only care about the money.

Please read what is in that quote above. I hope you continue to comment.

Nobody wanted this bill. Nobody would have hoped for a bill as this one is even as amended. I hope people continue to push harder. Now that it has been amended toward an earlier draw, it is a lot easier to try to get all tags as an early draw and no fee for that process, which would be a huge improvement. It will take a lot of pressure to get there. Please keep pressing for changes you want.

Or hopefully the Senate will look at what a mess MOGA created with this bill and their approach and they will just kill it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

So if the current bill passes with the $300 early application fee, does that extra fee also fall under the 80% refund rule I assume?

Tough pill for those only wanting to do LE Elk in the future. You basically pay $300 just for the chance to draw a LE tag unless you decide to hunt the general combo.

I assume that since it's a special app fee, it doesn't fall under the refund rule, but I'd need to re-read the amended bill. LE Permits are still on their own schedule, and this is simply about drawing the B11 or B10 license early for a fee. Everyone who jumps in the General pool will still have the same opportunity to draw LE permits as those with the early bird.

The bill does not increase the B10 or B11 license pool at all. it holds the line at 17K & 4600.

The other thing to consider is that the deer portion of the B10 is around 5500 right now, and MT is selling about 9-10K B11's at the current price. This wouldn't change that either, since it would only be 40% of the statutorily approved 4600.

Landowner sponsored licenses would stay the same as they have been since 2011 or 2013 - No change there.

 

[Sytes]

The bill is in Senate Finance & Claims today, so if you plan on commenting, keep your comments to the money, not the policy or politics. F&C members only care about the money.

Thanks for the info & update.

Seems a fair exchange to give people and outfitters time to book (and not overbook) while not kicking others to the curb.

Outfitter license bill advances – but heavily amended

A bill meant to set aside a portion of non-resident hunting licenses for outfitters’ clients in Montana advanced Monday in the state Senate – but not before the set-aside was amended out of the bill.

www.kbzk.com

Question though, are the landowner tags still available to sell or transfer?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Thanks for the info & update.

Seems a fair exchange to give people and outfitters time to book (and not overbook) while not kicking others to the curb.

Outfitter license bill advances – but heavily amended

A bill meant to set aside a portion of non-resident hunting licenses for outfitters’ clients in Montana advanced Monday in the state Senate – but not before the set-aside was amended out of the bill.

www.kbzk.com

Question though, are the landowner tags still available to sell or transfer?

The landowner tags are only available for land owned by the sponsor and not for sale or transfer. Landowners may change outfitting fees.

 

[Sytes]

The landowner tags are only available for land owned by the sponsor and not for sale or transfer. Landowners may change outfitting fees.

One more Q:
That's the revised section 2 and section 3, 640 contiguous acres per sponsored tag (max of 15) portion for the B-11's?

(2) In addition to the Class B-11 licenses authorized pursuant to 87-2-510, there are reserved 2,000
16 Class B-11 licenses for applicants indicating their intent to hunt with a resident sponsor on land owned by that
17 sponsor, as provided in subsections (2) and subsection (3) and this subsection.

Have to admit, this seems a fair squabble exchange. Downside? Legislature stepping on the commission's responsibility though I-161 makes the argument for the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Ben Lamb]

One more Q:
That's the revised section 2 and section 3, 640 contiguous acres per sponsored tag (max of 15) portion for the B-11's?



Have to admit, this seems a fair squabble exchange. Downside? Legislature stepping on the commission's responsibility though I-161 makes the argument for the pot calling the kettle black.

That's existing language in statute. Basically, if the Landowner Sponsored B11 is undersubscribed, Landowners may submit up to 15 names for the leftovers. Not something I agree with, but in light of what this thing started out as, leaving that in place would mean more votes to strip the bad provisions and add the less lethal ones.

 

[Hunt West]

Under the amended bill, 60% of the statutorily approved B10 & B11 licenses would be available for the General Draw. The Commission may increase the early draw to 50%, but it's set in statute as 40%.

I looked around and MT would still be a deal on the Deer/Elk Combo at $1400. WY charges close to $1200 for their early elk only license. Combining Deer & Elk in other states gets you darn close, if not slightly above, current pricing for the B10.

I do think the B11 is overpriced with the early bird special, and could see fixing that to come down to $150 or so.

The bill is a long way from being done, so keep posting thoughts on how it would work better, or continue to voice your opposition. The Legislature needs to continue to hear from folks.

The bill is in Senate Finance & Claims today, so if you plan on commenting, keep your comments to the money, not the policy or politics. F&C members only care about the money.

WY doesn’t have an “early” license per say. Just a Jan deadline with a may draw for all NR elk license. On a side note I wouldn’t be surprised if WYOGA will start cooking something up if this passes. They wouldn’t be able to stand people having an elk license in hand before they even have an application period. That was their whole argument for leaving the NR application period in January and not moving it to May when the draw actually occurs.

 

[MTGomer]

I’m still in shock at the price of lift tickets at Big Sky.

 

[8andcounting]

I have to disagree with you as well. WY does this exact thing with their special draw and are still growing 0.5points a year to get a tag and the special went from helping you by 2-3yrs to giving you a tag 1yr early.

The only way I see apps going down persay is in the 2nd regular priced draw. People with a lot of LE points would be wise to apply in the early draw to "guarantee" themselves their tag to get into the LE draw. So therefore maybe fewer people would be in the regular draw trying to get a LE permit.

I would venture to guess that returned tags (not drawing your LE permit) will be drastically less if this makes it all the way.

Montana is not Wyoming .

 

[8andcounting]

Assuming at least some of the combo tags would still be available at current prices, I couldn't disagree more on apps going down. Apps going down would largely defy the trend of every state for every species for every year the past 10+ years. I would love to bet anyone and everyone who thinks there will be leftovers in 5 years.

Your on . It’s a cycle . The cycle is at peak right now .

 

[Ben Lamb]

I’m still in shock at the price of lift tickets at Big Sky.

Big Sky is the epitome of a failed western economy.