Montana - Time to Shake it Up?

[Carnage2011]

That is not correct. They broke it out by species and what I can tell you with confidence is that both numbers were incorrect.

Interesting. I had this same issue in 324 a few years ago and specifically asked the biologist about it. His response was exactly what I told you.

 

[DFS]

Some great ideas you have suggested. Here's something you might consider. I am!

FWP looks for members for mule deer advisory council

HELENA – Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks is forming an advisory council to help begin the process of developing a new statewide mule deer plan. The Mule Deer Citizens Advisory Council (MDCAC) will consist of 10 to 12 people and will identify expectations for the new mule deer plan, which

bozemanmagazine.com

FWP Looks For Members For Mule Deer Advisory Council | Montana FWP

FWP looks for members for mule deer advisory council

fwp.mt.gov

If there is a way to get a more knowledgeable and qualified individual that wants the spot from my region in I will do it. Otherwise I plan on throwing my name in. I know who I want on that council.

 

[antlerradar]

There are plenty of hunters out there that don't want anything to change.

Change is coming wether we want it or not. I have seen lots of changes since I first started to argue for change in the mid 90's. I can not say that most of them have been good for the public land hunter. The most likely result of not changing anything now is what @rogerthat decribes, limited entry workng its way accross the state and more carve outs for landowerns. It is going to start happening at an exclerated pace.

 

[Gerald Martin]

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/conservation/deer/mfwp_muledeer_w-167-r_finalreport.pdf

I don’t know if this has been posted yet on this thread. I found this study while searching for information for this upcoming discussion next month. I figured I would share it here as I prepare to read it.

Post up any relevant portions that stand out to you if you read it.

 

[antlerradar]

What stood out to me is that in the western study areas natural mortality of 21 to 25% leaves little room for doe harvest by hunters.
While natural mortality in eastern Montana is much lower at 5 to 7%, leaving 20% for hunters before we get to the level of little room for more harvest. I am confident that region wide we do not come close to taking 20% of the does even when the tag numbers are high. However on heavily hunted and easily accessed public land it is likely we take more than 20% even when tag numbers are low.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

I’m glad guys are bringing up the issues with whitetail as well. I’m guilty of focusing on mule deer concerns and sometimes forgetting whitetail which many of us also love to hunt. I’d like to see whitetail doe tags, when necessary to be issued, be issued by unit instead of region. For instance, you can have areas of predominantly ag and river bottom that might have too high of a whitetail population warranting doe tags and at the same time, a different unit in the same region is mostly prairie or mountain habitat where numbers are much lower and can’t handle the additional harvest.

Might be better to keep the harvest pressure up on whitetails living in traditional mule deer habitat to prevent colonization.

 

[antlerradar]

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/conservation/deer/mfwp_muledeer_w-167-r_finalreport.pdf

I don’t know if this has been posted yet on this thread. I found this study while searching for information for this upcoming discussion next month. I figured I would share it here as I prepare to read it.

Post up any relevant portions that stand out to you if you read it.

Second take is Montana is a big and diverse state, Not likely that a one size fits all is the best approach.

 

[Eric Albus]

We created a problem with the elk/deer combo by making it split if the applicant didn’t draw an elk permit in an LE draw unit they can return the elk portion of license. Which the state reissues. This puts another set of boots on the ground, creating crowding issues for both deer and elk areas.

There are unintended consequences to nearly every action. We need to find solutions that are tenable for all involved, landowners, R hunters, and R outfitters. We have to figure out who gets/gives up something in order to better manage OUR resource.

 

[WanderWoman]

Some good resources I just found and have been geeking out on. I haven’t listened to other episodes, mainly just these ones but they contain a lot (I mean, A LOT) of good info on mule deer, mule deer management, big bucks, and trade offs.

Antler Point Restrictions and other management scenarios/tradeoffs: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rokcast/id1473746379?i=1000622953299

‘Big buck’ management (this one was my favorite, it includes a little of everything): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rokcast/id1473746379?i=1000610447654

Mule deer management in ID, tradeoffs, effects of nutrition, CWD: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rokcast/id1473746379?i=1000615746598

I know the Rokslide forum gets a lot of flack on here, and some of the podcast titles in the show are a little cringey, but these are excellent and there looks to be a few more worth listening to.

 

[bigsky2]

We created a problem with the elk/deer combo by making it split if the applicant didn’t draw an elk permit in an LE draw unit they can return the elk portion of license. Which the state reissues. This puts another set of boots on the ground, creating crowding issues for both deer and elk areas.

There are unintended consequences to nearly every action. We need to find solutions that are tenable for all involved, landowners, R hunters, and R outfitters. We have to figure out who gets/gives up something in order to better manage OUR resource.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of unintended consequences of things passed in the legislature that are even harder to reverse than decisions made by FWP. Things like Come Home to Hunt, Native NR tags, etc. haven't done us any favors.

 

[sclancy27]

Some good resources I just found and have been geeking out on. I haven’t listened to other episodes, mainly just these ones but they contain a lot (I mean, A LOT) of good info on mule deer, mule deer management, big bucks, and trade offs.

Antler Point Restrictions and other management scenarios/tradeoffs: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rokcast/id1473746379?i=1000622953299

‘Big buck’ management (this one was my favorite, it includes a little of everything): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rokcast/id1473746379?i=1000610447654

Mule deer management in ID, tradeoffs, effects of nutrition, CWD: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rokcast/id1473746379?i=1000615746598

I know the Rokslide forum gets a lot of flack on here, and some of the podcast titles in the show are a little cringey, but these are excellent and there looks to be a few more worth listening to.

All the mule deer podcasts I've listened too by Rokslide have been excellent. Great, science-based guests. The "Big Buck" one is especially good.

 

[brockel]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of unintended consequences of things passed in the legislature that are even harder to reverse than decisions made by FWP. Things like Come Home to Hunt, Native NR tags, etc. haven't done us any favors.

The amount of people that benefit from that in our little town is nuts can’t imagine Montana wide. Kids move to other states where they can make better money but parents stay here. Kids take the week of thanksgiving off and come home for a week of hunting

 

[Mtn-time]

We created a problem with the elk/deer combo by making it split if the applicant didn’t draw an elk permit in an LE draw unit they can return the elk portion of license. Which the state reissues. This puts another set of boots on the ground, creating crowding issues for both deer and elk areas.

There are unintended consequences to nearly every action. We need to find solutions that are tenable for all involved, landowners, R hunters, and R outfitters. We have to figure out who gets/gives up something in order to better manage OUR resource.

There is something to be said for the undertaking of housekeeping items although painful that move the needle in the right direction before.

 

[SAJ-99]

The amount of people that benefit from that in our little town is nuts can’t imagine Montana wide. Kids move to other states where they can make better money but parents stay here. Kids take the week of thanksgiving off and come home for a week of hunting

Can we move Thanksgiving out of the MD rut? We all know the pilgrims had that meal in October!

 

[brockel]

Can we move Thanksgiving out of the MD rut? We all know the pilgrims had that meal in October!

If we can’t do that let’s make the traditional season over thanksgiving. Hunt like the pilgrims did. Now that’s tradition

 

[Straight Arrow]

If we can’t do that let’s make the traditional season over thanksgiving. Hunt like the pilgrims did. Now that’s tradition

That's seriously a good idea, as it might save some of those bucks in rut and give them a chance to grow up.

 

[BuzzH]

We created a problem with the elk/deer combo by making it split if the applicant didn’t draw an elk permit in an LE draw unit they can return the elk portion of license. Which the state reissues. This puts another set of boots on the ground, creating crowding issues for both deer and elk areas.

There are unintended consequences to nearly every action. We need to find solutions that are tenable for all involved, landowners, R hunters, and R outfitters. We have to figure out who gets/gives up something in order to better manage OUR resource.

What about NR outfitters, you left them out?

 

[brockel]

That's seriously a good idea, as it might save some of those bucks in rut and give them a chance to grow up.

Shorten rifle to 3 weeks. Last 2 traditional.

 

[SAJ-99]

We created a problem with the elk/deer combo by making it split if the applicant didn’t draw an elk permit in an LE draw unit they can return the elk portion of license. Which the state reissues. This puts another set of boots on the ground, creating crowding issues for both deer and elk areas.

It isn't that big of a problem but the solution is simple. Change the draw process so the LE draw is done before the Pref point draw for the license and those successful are automatically given a license. This has been suggested by 1000 people, including Big Fin I believe, and MT still does it ass backwards. I have never heard a reasonable reason why it is done the way it is.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Shorten rifle to 3 weeks. Last 2 traditional.

This takes legislation.

The muzzleloader hunt is a season set in statute. It is now serving as a prime example as to why setting seasons in statute is a bad idea.