Joke's on Us

[jryoung]

This is probably relevant. Julie McQueen (three years later) didn't appreciate Rinella's thoughts.

http://adirondackbowhunters.com/2015/04/08/guest-blogger-julie-mcqueen-when-hunters-attack-hunters/

 

[NKQualtieri]

This is probably relevant. Julie McQueen (three years later) didn't appreciate Rinella's thoughts.

http://adirondackbowhunters.com/2015/04/08/guest-blogger-julie-mcqueen-when-hunters-attack-hunters/

Is it relevant? I don't really know. Mostly because she doesn't actually say anything in that post.

To be honest, I could probably write an academic thesis on that blunt and obviously veiled response that she wrote. I'd be interested to see her actual letter in its entirety but the fact that she's not willing to share it makes it seem disingenuous.

I don't discount the humanity of women who actively choose to be in the spotlight and in order to so modify themselves accordingly. I wear makeup and dye my hair on occasion and am a participant in all of that to a degree as well.

There are incredibly beautiful women who are also smart, courageous, tough, athletic, and all of the things that follow. I know this. I'm really great friends with many women like this. And as envious of their genetic superiority as I am, I'm always more blown away by their kindness, thoughtfulness, wicked senses of humor, and intelligence. It's the substance that wins, every time.

Of course, that's *some" women. Just as it's *some* men that can simply be all things to all people. Superhumans exist. Alas, most of us aren't those people.

I've personally never seen any of Julie's shows or work, so I can't comment on her specifically. I understand why she has a fake tan, fake boobs, and hair extensions. But if she really wanted to speak up for herself and for women, she wouldn't just write a quick post that essentially makes her a victim of her own success. No one is stronger or more enlightened because of something like that.

When she writes something more compelling, I'd be stoked to read it.

 

[noharleyyet]

This is probably relevant. Julie McQueen (three years later) didn't appreciate Rinella's thoughts.

http://adirondackbowhunters.com/2015/04/08/guest-blogger-julie-mcqueen-when-hunters-attack-hunters/

Noticed this blurb from comments jr...

Ah yes, an article about how we shouldn’t be attacking each other, with attacks on others’ hunting method’s in the comments.

 

[RobG]

I don't know the exact numbers but it is around 50/50 girls/boys in hunter's safety classes these days. The participation must drop off pretty fast. I just saw an article claiming something like girls are more likely to hunt to be with their hunting parent than the hunt itself. Parents fall out of fashion during high school so maybe that is the reason.

 

[muledeerjunkie]

I'll throw in my two cents here... We have four children, two girls and two boys ages 20,18,14,12.

Our 20 year old daughter shot a whitetail buck when she was 15 and has never hunted since... I've not given up on her and still ask every year if she'd like to apply for a license (though her response continues to be "no"). Maybe I'm being stubborn here and trying to get my way, but I feel the outdoors is a great place to get an education and don't want her to miss out on anything that life has to offer. One of these days she might come back around and take me up on my offer...who knows.

Both of our sons have an interest in hunting; the younger one maybe a little more so than the older one, but some of that might be because the older one is focusing on college. He's trying to land a good career that will support the financial ramifications that accompany hunting.

Our 12 year old daughter recently passed the hunter safety course; the boy/girl ratio wasn't anywhere close to 50/50 here, but there were a handful of girls in the class. She has since requested that I take her to the rifle range so she can get prepared for her first deer hunt this fall (a one week doe only hunt during mid-September). I've invited her to the archery range as well and hope that someday she'll fling arrows with her male counterparts.

It's been my observation that girls tend to be as good or better shots with guns/archery equipment than boys (at least initially). I feel some of this is due to them being more focused on their target and willingness to learn proper technique. Boys tend to see shooting as a competition against others and have developed poor technique from shooting Nerf or Air Soft guns and other projectile flinging toys since they could run. Boys have a false sense of "already knowing it" which give the girls an advantage here...

 

[2rocky]

I get that this is a joke.

But with all the women (wives, mothers, daughters, straight-up newcomers) hunting these days, I wonder what it's going to take for the industry to not suck when it comes to welcoming women into the boys club, rather than alienating them from it.

Frankly, I don't think the "hunting show industry" (on average) represents hunters and what motivates hunters very well. Mr. Rinella, and Newberg, have done a better job than the run of the mill hunting show.

Horn Porn is an apt name for shows that profess to show a love of hunting.

 

[BuzzH]

I think that any hunting/conservation organizations, companies, etc. that aren't embracing women and hunting are dinosaurs on a sinking ship. On the other side of that coin, those organizations that are taking women seriously in the hunting community are going to benefit...no doubt in my mind.

In my opinion, and IME, women that get involved in things like hunting, fishing, and conservation are much more passionate about it than men.

Locally, here in Wyoming there are many women getting involved in all sorts of outdoor related things, serving on various boards, joining sportsmen's groups, attending GF meetings, etc. WYBHA recently added a very passionate, well spoken, and active sportswoman to our board. There is no doubt in my mind that her influence is going to be positive not only for women hunters and anglers, but for conservation, hunting, habitat, etc. etc. in general.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I grew up in a hunting and fishing family, but I was never encouraged to pursue these activities the same way my two brothers were. So I didn't hunt, and had never been on a hunt until my then boyfriend (now husband) took me along when he went. I enjoyed the chase and the stalk, and he encouraged me to try it. There was never any pressure and he made it clear that whether I wanted to hunt or not was all up to me. So I tried it and have never looked back. He now tells his friends that he's created a monster, but I know he is really happy that I love it so much.

I'm glad there is more acceptance of women hunting, but I still feel like there is a long way to go. For example, I get tired of seeing pink on everything (thank you Randy11). Despite being female, I've never been a fan of pink and the subtle message I get is that my femininity is threatened by all those hunting clothes, so we better have some pink on there to signify my gender properly. I don't get why it's so important to look like a female hunter, rather than just a hunter. The wildlife certainly don't seem to care.

I also get tired of women hunters always being perceived as "newbies", or needing manly help or intervention. I've been hunting for over a decade now, and have no problem going alone, killing and bringing out my own game, etc. But there have been times when certain men have bombarded me with unsolicited advice on the most basic of hunting skills and I wonder - what makes you think I need help with this? Would you give the same advice to a man with the same hunting experience?

I realize a lot of you guys probably find yourselves in a conundrum. What do you say, and how do you say it, without coming across as a chauvinistic bozo? I think there are a lot of men out there who don't have a problem with female hunters, but who also don't know many and aren't sure how to deal with them. I guess all I can say is that we are just hunters, with the same spectrum of skills and abilities that you find in the male hunting population. Base your interactions with us on our skills and abilities, and it will be appreciated.

 

[onpoint]

My other half has been an blue collar, rise at 0400, sweat like a pig, freeze her butt, hardcore hunter and angler for years. Doesn't give a crap about "the industry" and how it perceives lady participants -she just gets it done..........some pics:
Packing an elk quarter out of the Madison Range
Glassing for lopes beneath hundreds of sandhills
Turkeys just on the other side of that downed Ponderosa
Hardwater fishing for Cutties
Fishing the salmonfly hatch with the Avocets on the Madison

 

[Flatrock]

I realize a lot of you guys probably find yourselves in a conundrum. What do you say, and how do you say it, without coming across as a chauvinistic bozo?

I feel like that statement is spot on. That also goes for a lot of other topics in today's world too.

I showed this ad to my wife and she just laughed a little and said "yup". Does anybody else think this discussion is partially about the political correctness that is becoming so dominant these days? Somebody is always offended by every single thing that is done or said. As was mentioned in the 1st post, this ad is a joke that will make most people chuckle and so I don't think it is meant to alienate anybody. I could look at the ad and say I am offended by it because it implies that I love hunting more than my wife when that is not true. I don't though as I know it is just a joke and don't take it literally.

Even the issue about pink and camo, isn't that a woman's choice? I feel like that's just a personal preference and if a woman wants to buy some camo with a little pink in it, I say great, go for it. Not everyone has the exact same likes/dislikes.

With that said, I fully agree that we should welcome women into hunting and fishing and should welcome any that are interested. (I wish my wife would get more interested in it but she just has no interest.) I also feel like very, very few men wouldn't like to see more women become involved. My sister completed hunter safety this year and wants to go elk hunting and I am very excited about trying to make that work. She has a very busy fall schedule so I don't know if we'll be able to do it this year but hopefully next year at the latest.

 

[Hatchie Dawg]

Untitled by jeff lansdale, on Flickr

My youngest. She rolls em out better than most her age regardless of gender.

 

[NKQualtieri]

Boys have a false sense of "already knowing it" which give the girls an advantage here...

I think in a lot of ways boys have a different set of expectations, of themselves and from other people.

Girls are often the perpetual underdog in male-dominated areas, which means we also have a lot less risk involved in having to prove ourselves. Throw in the desire to want to please other people in a high-achieving way, and I just think all of these things create focus, which is an inevitable path to success.

I think a boy learning to shoot with a dad looking over his shoulder might be having a different experience than a girl learning to shoot that way. Curious as to what you think? Sounds like you've created an awesome environment for your kiddos all the way around.

A few of my friends have been teaching me how to shoot (all men) and they've all been incredibly thoughtful, patient, kind, and understanding. The kind of teachers that everyone deserves.

But I do think it would be a lot harder from a guy in my age group (late 20s, early 30s) to be able to joke about my own beginners' incompetence, feeling open to ask questions, and being able to be as curious as I can be, because there's a lot of machismo and masculinity attached to guns. In effect, I don't have to protect my man card. Which I think is actually a really big gift in this whole process of learning how to hunt later in life.

 

[NKQualtieri]

I showed this ad to my wife and she just laughed a little and said "yup". Does anybody else think this discussion is partially about the political correctness that is becoming so dominant these days? Somebody is always offended by every single thing that is done or said. As was mentioned in the 1st post, this ad is a joke that will make most people chuckle and so I don't think it is meant to alienate anybody. I could look at the ad and say I am offended by it because it implies that I love hunting more than my wife when that is not true. I don't though as I know it is just a joke and don't take it literally.

I work in hunting media so the reality for me is that I can't really avoid any of this stuff, so it almost becomes like chinese water torture. Initially, it's easy to roll my eyes and chuckle, but after the 100th time I'm of the firm belief that maybe there are better jokes out there. So you can definitely take what I say with a grain of salt, it's coming from a place that has been a little worn down.

I am very much so not a politically correct person (I recently got a PM from someone on this site about my colorful language) but I do think that silly, hacky jokes are a symptom of bigger prejudices. Not all the time, not in every case, but when it's an overall theme in a genre, it's creating an environment. That's where one joke can feel like it's gone a little too far, no matter how dumb and seemingly harmless it is.

It's a big leap here, and I know it, but if the media world did what the guys on the ground do, hunting would have a much different persona in the public eye. I've never met a group of more passionate, focused, thoughtful people than the ones I've encountered in the hunting community. They live, eat, breathe, sleep this life, and I respect the hell out of that.

In that same thread of things, I think there are those overlying issues that beg our attention. For pages with as big a reach as Sportsman, perhaps they should consider what they're doing on a whole scale for the general community. If one of my friends shared that post on a singular level to his friends and family, I'd be a lot less inclined to feel annoyed by it.

But like another poster said, his wife just hits it hard and doesn't pay attention to the stuff that doesn't matter. That's a definite luxury that hunting offers, it can be as private as you care to make it. It's a communal relationship with the earth, not with our computers.

Lucky for us--and especially for people like me who are consistently on that laptop grind--online hunting forums exist

 

[NKQualtieri]

I also get tired of women hunters always being perceived as "newbies", or needing manly help or intervention. I've been hunting for over a decade now, and have no problem going alone, killing and bringing out my own game, etc. But there have been times when certain men have bombarded me with unsolicited advice on the most basic of hunting skills and I wonder - what makes you think I need help with this? Would you give the same advice to a man with the same hunting experience?

I realize a lot of you guys probably find yourselves in a conundrum. What do you say, and how do you say it, without coming across as a chauvinistic bozo? I think there are a lot of men out there who don't have a problem with female hunters, but who also don't know many and aren't sure how to deal with them. I guess all I can say is that we are just hunters, with the same spectrum of skills and abilities that you find in the male hunting population. Base your interactions with us on our skills and abilities, and it will be appreciated.

Yes to this whole post. Seriously. Thank you for writing this.

In the world of media, we'd call this a mic drop

 

[hank4elk]

Love the discussion.
Out of 4 sisters I have 2 that fish once in awhile. No kids of my own but lots of nieces and nephews,I have taught some outdoors skills too. And learned from them too.

Some of the best stealthy hunter stalkers I have encountered have been women,not a joke.
One was my ex who loves the woods and skulks through them like a pro,but does not hunt.Will cook any critter you bring her better than anyone.

There are too many to count were I live now. Wish I could meet one that isn't attached or so busy packing,guiding,outfitting,cowboying,teaching, being a mom,etc.......they usually snicker at the pink camo Tiffany wannabees that show up during hunting season.
Most women here are in the outdoors business in one way or another. They are just go do it gals too.

 

[El Jason]

Interesting discussion here. I have anecdotally observed that on average, men tend to far overestimate their skills and abilities as hunters and women tend to equally underestimate their skills and abilities. Sometimes the guy offering up unsolicited advice really doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, but is far more likely to try and convince everyone that he does.

I don't have a problem with pink camo, one of my girls loves it. Pink camo is no more reflective of a woman's skill as a hunter than what a guy wears, and we've all seen plenty of idjuts who are fully decked out in the latest greatest clothing. My daughter also loves the Sitka top I gave her, she wears it to school sometimes. She also put pictures of her deer on her "all about me" presentation that she gave in class.

I would like to see Sikta embrace some women hunters as their athletes, but choose wisely. The hunting industry is too full of clowns as it is, it doesn't need more.

Whatever we can do to market to women on a scale that is not condescending and patronizing would be a good thing.

 

[BrokenWing]

I've got three girls. Love to take them out but don't focus a lot of weird energy on it. What I do focus on is how much I love to bring them. I think they just view it as something we do, not a strange, once-in-a-while, comment-worthy event.

I do know my middle one pictured loves to tell the boys at school wearing duck commander tshirts that she eats waterfowl at least weekly all year.

 

[JDH]

Very interesting thread. I took my younger sister (24) deer hunting for her first time last year. We did not grow up in a hunting family and I taught myself how to hunt. Until I started reading this thread I never really noticed it but our dad does seem to question her about why she hunts was more than why I hunt. Unfortunately the deer busted us and she had to make a quick shot and missed. She couldn't believe the "buck fever" she got over a doe. I never once treated her what some would perceive "like a girl". I treated her like a beginning hunter. I will have to ask her what she thinks about pink camo. She worked as an MEP engineer on a job site for a year and would tell stories about how the guys in her office would apologize for cursing in front of her. This thread has definitely given me something to talk to her about.

 

[unchained]

I am happy to see first lite start a line for women, so my wife doesn't have to be decked out with hiking gear from a lot of antihunting companies on her first western hunt. I think this is a step in the right direction, and hope more high end company brands can carve out some gear for women.

 

[Dinkshooter]

On the other side of this is this "extreme huntress" stuff that is akin to nails on a chalkboard every time I hear the word, am asked/begged to vote for, or other wise give a crap about it.