Joke's on Us

NKQualtieri

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I get that this is a joke.

But with all the women (wives, mothers, daughters, straight-up newcomers) hunting these days, I wonder what it's going to take for the industry to not suck when it comes to welcoming women into the boys club, rather than alienating them from it. But then again, they didn't even use a period at the end of their sentence, so one can only expect so much...
 

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ID_deerslayer

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Oddly, my wife says this to me about hunting in general. I usually retort back that I love her enough to have gotten married at the beginning of bow season. I will hopefully help her to harvest her first big game animal and induct her into the hunting world.
 

Gerald Martin

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I get that this is a joke.

But with all the women (wives, mothers, daughters, straight-up newcomers) hunting these days, I wonder what it's going to take for the industry to not suck when it comes to welcoming women into the boys club, rather than alienating them from it. But then again, they didn't even use a period at the end of their sentence, so one can only expect so much...

As long as those in positions of influence in advertising and media continue to view women as objects to be used to make their shows or products more sexy and appealing to men, I doubt you'll see much change.

One of the best pieces of writing I've seen on this subject.- http://camoisthenewblack.com/2015/0...sses-and-the-future-of-american-conservation/

I think you are working with a company that is on the cutting edge of changing people's attitudes about what it means to be female and a hunter.

You personally have an opportunity to influence perception. No pressure. :)
 

Gerald Martin

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But then again, they didn't even use a period at the end of their sentence, so one can only expect so much...


Although I'm certain you already know from experience, there's a fair number of the male population who tend toward species confusion and tend to self-identify as equus asinus.
 

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NKQualtieri

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As long as those in positions of influence in advertising and media continue to view women as objects to be used to make their shows or products more sexy and appealing to men, I doubt you'll see much change.

One of the best pieces of writing I've seen on this subject.- http://camoisthenewblack.com/2015/0...sses-and-the-future-of-american-conservation/

I think you are working with a company that is on the cutting edge of changing people's attitudes about what it means to be female and a hunter.

You personally have an opportunity to influence perception. No pressure. :)

Gerald, this note and the pics of who I'm assuming is your awesome daughter made my night :)

1) Thanks for letting me vent. I needed to vent today.
2) Thanks for seeing where I was coming from.
3) Thanks for reminding me to put my $$ where my mouth is.

I'm lucky to work for a company that works really hard to break down a lot of the stereotypes as well as build new ones that will hopefully become more normal in the hunting media world. Being a part of the process is intense, insanely educational, but also really eye-opening. It makes posts like what Sportsman put up stand out as so backwards.

I had a dad that always pushed me to stand up for what I believed was right, say what I thought, and take responsibility for myself. Sometimes I think dads of daughters are the biggest catalysts in de-objectifying women. I know my dad did that for me by always seeing and treating me as an equal.

So 4) Thanks for reminding me of that. Have fun with your daughter. She clearly is on her way to being an incredible sportswoman.
 

NKQualtieri

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And as for the horse's asses, I know I can occasionally be one myself, so forgiveness reigns supreme as always, no matter the gender. Lol :)
 

VAspeedgoat

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Great article, thanks for posting it Gerald. I admit I'm going through some of this with my own daughter. She has two older brothers that are both really into the outdoors. She is as well and unfortunately I find myself taking a second to think oh yeah, she needs/wants to go to. It is a double standard and if someone told me not to take her, I would be ticked off. NK, you're right about the boys club and I am not trying to exclude my daughter, just trying to shake of years of male chauvinism. She is more proficient fishing than my younger son was at the same age and more driven to shoot well than my older son. It will be interesting to see where she ends up. Having a daughter has deffinately opened my eyes to a lot of things I already knew but just never gave much thought. As a farmer, I also see that as a generally male dominated profession. The thing is, she is wired to be the best farmer between the three kids. Just like with hunting and fishing, I can't wait to see where she ends up.
 

VAspeedgoat

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I had two more thoughts on the subject. One is I hope I didn't come off as a guy treating his daughter unfairly. I guess I was trying to be honest that it does take a while to reprogram yourself because it is easy to just keep it a boys club. Plus having two noys first didn't help matters any. Now I can't see how you would ever exclude girls/women.

The second thought is, that it is just not men that.promote the boys club image. I find my mother and sister a little confused after I take my daughter out with me. You would think they would be all for it but they almost see it as me forcing her into something for my ego. I wish there was an easy answer/cure for all if this.
 

genesis273

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My daughter grew up hunting with me, but now at 21, not as much as before. She does however love to let everyone know that she is a hunter.
My wife is a bona-fide deer killer. She has obtained her own property to hunt, by sweetly just asking, and doesn't have to pay for a lease. She hunts while I'm at work, but will call me as soon as there is a deer on the ground, to let me know that it's time for me to "come get it". So I have to take coveralls and boots to work to take care of her deer. The director loves knowing that my wife is hunting, and killing while I'm working. And she doesn't descriminate between bucks and does. If a doe walks out first, even with a buck behind, and the doe is legal...the doe will be heading to the house. She has no problem tagging does all year.
Her only issue is, how to get the deer out of the woods and what to do next. I'm sure that's the case with alot of women hunters. There's alot of physical strength used after the shot. No matter, as long as she keeps hunting, I'll keep doing whatever I can do to make it easy. I even have friends who hunt close to her property that are willing to assist her, if needed.
 

mtmuley

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Guess I don't see hunting as a "boys club." I had a lot of female family members growing up that participated in our adventures. I have a daughter, and I wanted her to hunt in the worst way. She did not really show any interest, and I never pushed. One day at 16 years old she made her own decision. That's key I think, for boys or girls. Now, at 19 she can hold her own with the "boys club." mtmuley
 

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Cornell2012

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I get that this is a joke.

But with all the women (wives, mothers, daughters, straight-up newcomers) hunting these days, I wonder what it's going to take for the industry to not suck when it comes to welcoming women into the boys club...

The industry is not doing a great job embracing change, and from what I've seen of the networks, they tend to do what is easy. In this case it is easy to rehash old, male-oriented jokes that probably get a bunch of likes and comments on facebook. That's positive reinforcement for the network, even if they could have had more such feedback if they went after a larger demographic.

I think the networks are happy keeping their demographic what it has always been. They know what to produce that appeals to that group, and that makes them money.
 

mtmuley

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But there is a growing number of outdoor shows featuring or focusing on women. Tons of outdoor gear specifically for women. mtmuley
 

MNElkNut

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My daughter (11) hunts and fishes with me and we went on a Canadian fishing trip in early June. Just prior to that, my wife made a comment about how my daughter probably wouldn't want to go to Canada fishing when she got older. the look she got from my daughter made my day. Heck, it made my year.

A lot of people are really doing it right raising girls to hunt and fish. The industry is slowly coming around in my mind. As MtMuley said, there are clothing lines aimed at them and quite a few women on hunting shows. One thing the industry needs to be careful about is propping women up in these roles because it excites the male audience vs being role models for young women and girls. Some mindless bimbo with big XXXXs does not belong there in my opinion as it promotes a negative stereotype. On the other hand, a good role model who knows her stuff is fantastic.
 

Randy11

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One thing the industry needs to be careful about is propping women up in these roles because it excites the male audience vs being role models for young women and girls. Some mindless bimbo with big XXXXs does not belong there in my opinion as it promotes a negative stereotype. On the other hand, a good role model who knows her stuff is fantastic.

Exactly. The 'industry' caters to women in such a patronizing way I really wonder if it does more harm than good, and further enforces that stereotype. Thinking women need to have pink camo in order to want to hunt, or a pink gun stock is pretty demeaning.

The deal with one of the Midwest states trying to pass a law to make pink legal as hunters orange to 'recruit' female hunters was a good example of this. Women hunters who really are passionate hunters could surely use a strong voice in the form of a writer or host who isn't the stereotypical Tiffany.

My wife and I talk about this a lot, and it kills her to see some of the female 'personalities' on TV. She's a hardcore hunter, and has been her whole life. It's be nice if the industry recognized she existed.

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076_zps06e98faa.jpg
 

NKQualtieri

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I had two more thoughts on the subject. One is I hope I didn't come off as a guy treating his daughter unfairly. I guess I was trying to be honest that it does take a while to reprogram yourself because it is easy to just keep it a boys club. Plus having two noys first didn't help matters any. Now I can't see how you would ever exclude girls/women.

The second thought is, that it is just not men that.promote the boys club image. I find my mother and sister a little confused after I take my daughter out with me. You would think they would be all for it but they almost see it as me forcing her into something for my ego. I wish there was an easy answer/cure for all if this.

I think one of the biggest things that occurs in our inner lives is the struggle of recognition and trying to go against the flow of what seems natural because of new insights. How you came across is someone who is struggling with what's old and what's new. A lot of it also depends on your daughter.

I was my dad's tomboy, my sister was definitely a princess. Our lives have continued to follow that trajectory--I work in hunting and play outside constantly, she's a fashion designer in SF.

One of my girlfriends has two girls and a boy, she was a D1 basketball player and an intense tomboy growing up in Michigan. Her eldest exclusively wears dresses, is a dancer & a cheerleader. That's been one of the funniest and most heartwarming things to watch, is Tonya (my mentor in a lot of ways) learning to roll with the tide of her daughter's interests and incredibly feminine side.

Exposure is important, I think. If you give her the chance to love hunting and fishing--which it seems like you're already doing--however she ends up feeling about it, she had the option. It's really the same thing with boys, I think it's just been more of a given that they would have that exposure.

I hope that helps, please don't feel bad about it. This is how we all grow. Sending love to you and your fam :)
 
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NKQualtieri

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Guess I don't see hunting as a "boys club." I had a lot of female family members growing up that participated in our adventures. I have a daughter, and I wanted her to hunt in the worst way. She did not really show any interest, and I never pushed. One day at 16 years old she made her own decision. That's key I think, for boys or girls. Now, at 19 she can hold her own with the "boys club." mtmuley

I love this mtmuley :)

My best friend here in Bozeman, her grandmother is 90 yrs old and just recently stopped applying for her moose tag in the Bob Marshall at the young age of 88. She packed into the Bob with horses for almost 60 years by herself, hunting moose, elk, deer, and more. Her husband didn't hunt, but she took her sons/grandkids hunting and they're all hunters due to her passionate and devoted ethic around it.

Women have undoubtedly always been involved in hunting. I think really it's the media portrayal that has been hard to deal with, and this is definitely a fallout of working in media on a day-to-day basis. I'm most definitely barraged by it, but that's an overall cultural dilemma. I think it's just magnified in the hunting media, due to the disparity of male vs female hunters.

Your daughter coming around on her own is so awesome. The patience paid off. Thanks for this reminder.
 

NKQualtieri

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Exactly. The 'industry' caters to women in such a patronizing way I really wonder if it does more harm than good, and further enforces that stereotype. Thinking women need to have pink camo in order to want to hunt, or a pink gun stock is pretty demeaning.

The deal with one of the Midwest states trying to pass a law to make pink legal as hunters orange to 'recruit' female hunters was a good example of this. Women hunters who really are passionate hunters could surely use a strong voice in the form of a writer or host who isn't the stereotypical Tiffany.

My wife and I talk about this a lot, and it kills her to see some of the female 'personalities' on TV. She's a hardcore hunter, and has been her whole life. It's be nice if the industry recognized she existed.

I think your wife and I could be great friends :)

In another thread, a bunch of us talked the whole "environmentalist" word conundrum. I think the word "feminism" actually follows that same path. It's been really sullied and dirtied by people with radical, angry sentiments. But really, it's just wanting to have a seat at the table. It's wanting to be recognized for our humanity, rather than our femininity/objectifiable qualities. I'm with her on seeing more females that are hunters & role models that are accessible for all the right reasons, along the lines of what MNElkNut said.
 
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