I've about had enough

[Europe]

Sir : I am not as knowledgeable as yourself and others, but was asked to respond. However my thoughts are "dated"---but will share with you.

We found that it was better, for us, to have more than one corp ---taxes, workmanship comp, health care, liability, shielding of private information, but only to some degree, and the different laws in different countries also effected our thinking when we elected to set up 4 different corporations, a holding company, and two offshore corporations. Remember after 9/11 new laws went into effect stating any Americans owning off shore corporation bank account had to be disclosed, but this had no effect on us as we were never using them to "hide" money and they do have their benefits in the business world. Sometimes it might be better to have your attorneys law office apply for permits on behalf of a corp that you may or may not own and that corp hires another corp, which you only work for, but do not own, to film, etc.

Immediate downside, more attorney fees and corporate fees ( start up, yearly, and file) It just depends on how important it all is to you to shield your private information. As far as easy is concerned I can only quote what my husband use to say "if it was easy anybody could do it". Obviously it is not easy, to get the permits, to film the shows, to even conduct the hunts that "are" the shows and then get them out there so that so many are able to enjoy and share your experiences. And you do an excellent job of doing that, thank you

I am not an attorney, a resident of Montana, up to date or as knowledgeable as the fellows here, but I was ask to respond and have---best of luck sir

 

[BluegrassBilly]

If nothing else, I've probably scared off every Hunt Talker from ever again wanting to apply with us for a filmed hunt.

Then let me be the exception that proves the rule, and allow some good to come of this!

In all seriousness, I have a few additional points to add beyond what has been said by others. First, it might be worth your time to tee up a lawsuit that the permitting process unduly infringes on your first amendment rights. Like it or not, you are a member of the press, and governments' actions (both in slow processing and in failing to redact PII) is chilling your rights. Maybe they can require a permit (or not), but they certainly shouldn't be impeding your rights this way. Hell, maybe you could even get the ACLU to take your case!

Second, there's a reason you do what you do, how you do it: because you have higher ethical standards. You could shoot GMO, supplement-fed penned animals and package and sell it as something it's not. You could take shots at animals beyond your ethical range because "he's just too good to pass on." But that's not the way you operate. You've not only informed and inspired countless of us, but you're showing that doing thing the right way is something to be respected and is rewarding with or without a kill. Thank you for being that voice in the wilderness, literally.

 

[beginnerhunter]

With Gohunt being so expansive and detailed, is it really necessary to harass someone like this? Even the free sites I use gives away a lot of information. We're all looking at the same stuff, there's no secrets beyond particular areas within the units, but that information is more nebulous.

I would be interested in knowing how the other mainstream folks are doing it (hush, B&R, meateater, solo) and if the online folks have different means of dealing with this compared to the TV guys. If NONE of them are getting filming permits, why is FT? If they are getting permits, how to they protect their identities?

 

[mrcowboy]

beginnerhunter, good question as to whether the other mainstream folks are dealing with this or not. Be curious to hear the answer. Maybe Rinella will pipe in?

 

[TimeOnTarget]

So exactly how does that feel buzzard?? to be unjustly accused of wrong doing/illegal acts? based on jealousy..., gossip... stir in a little innuendo... Oh to be a stellar jay sitting outside of the tent flap...

Maybe I'm taking this out of context but is this a jab a Buzz?

 

[Festus]

This kind of thing blows my mind... But I live fairly simple. My daughter says I'm 'webaphobic' cause I avoid doing 'normal everyday' stuff online that most never give a second thought to.

Randy, thank you for all you do and how you do it. A real man will do what's right, not what's easy.
Thank you to members like Buzz, also. There are many here that help all of us - probably more than they even know.

If you wonder why we hunt/apply where we do, more and more of it is driven by film permit issues.

^^ Possible new OnX layer??
#silverlining

 

[BuzzH]

I guarantee Randy is not the only person dealing with this. There are lots of people that deal with it that aren't even TV personalities, just good hunters. I've had people follow me from town to hunting spots and know others that have had the same thing happen. People cruising trailheads to find your vehicle, trying to recognize stuff in the background of pictures, looking up your draw results, bugging your friends and relatives asking where you hunt, there is no limit to the extent people will go to find out information on where you hunt.

Those types miss the big picture, its not really the where, but the how. I would suggest those that are pulling shady crap to find out, they'll never get the "how" part down.

I don't sweat people knowing my spots, many would be disappointed with the amount of pressure most of them receive, how little game is there, and the number of hours it takes to find and kill a decent animal in many of my favorite spots.

But, what the successful hunters savvy is how to deal with all that...some get it, a lot don't.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I guarantee Randy is not the only person dealing with this. There are lots of people that deal with it that aren't even TV personalities, just good hunters. I've had people follow me from town to hunting spots and know others that have had the same thing happen. People cruising trailheads to find your vehicle, trying to recognize stuff in the background of pictures, looking up your draw results, bugging your friends and relatives asking where you hunt, there is no limit to the extent people will go to find out information on where you hunt.

Those types miss the big picture, its not really the where, but the how. I would suggest those that are pulling shady crap to find out, they'll never get the "how" part down.

I don't sweat people knowing my spots, many would be disappointed with the amount of pressure most of them receive, how little game is there, and the number of hours it takes to find and kill a decent animal in many of my favorite spots.

But, what the successful hunters savvy is how to deal with all that...some get it, a lot don't.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old guy already in my early 50's, it does seem like the spaces my father used to find solace in (a break from the daily challenge of work and kids) - fishing, hunting, golfing - in the last 20 years have become noisy and competitive and hurried and brand-filled d*ck measuring affairs. It's unfortunate, but in the end since for me these are rejuvenating activities and bonding activities with friends and kids, with no need to prove I am a world class hunter/fisher/golfer, I for the most part am happy going to the quiet places passed over by the "cool kids" and still finding peace - not trophies, but peace. It is too bad that these places have become fewer and fewer -- and the noisy crowd louder and louder.

 

[warmer]

Randy, thanks for what you do for public lands and public land users. I've got no sound advice, just a deep appreciation for what you do. I'm fortunate to suck so bad at hunting that no one will ever try to find my draw info. One of the side benefits of being terrible at hunting.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"Thank you to members like Buzz, also. There are many here that help all of us - probably more than they even know." Another of many Festus truths.

 

[Gut Shot]

Those types miss the big picture, its not really the where, but the how. I would suggest those that are pulling shady crap to find out, they'll never get the "how" part down.

It goes beyond even this. What sense of accomplishment do these people get when they obtain success by sucking off of your hard work? I've tried to understand the attitude of people who put the "amount of bone growing out of an animal's head" above every other part of the hunt. How can someone like that even enjoy being on a hunt in the wilderness when their only concern is the animal they will kill at the end of it?

 

[noharleyyet]

Nothing quite like the internet spawn of sidewalk prosecutors and ideological Don Quixote's.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Nothing quite like the internet spawn of sidewalk prosecutors and ideological Don Quixote's.

I wonder how much of the BS called out by BigFin and Buzz is driven by ideological anti's vs. how much by jealous d*ck-measuring jerks within the "hunting community"? Sadly, I would guess in this instance, it is heavily the later.

 

[OverlordBear]

Also the other culprit could be one of the private land Utah lackies who also love to hunt public land in both Idaho and Wyoming even though they can’t hunt in their own state.

 

[Gerald Martin]

All this just goes to show me how outdated my methods of cyber stalking would be. I would have figured a savvy stalker would have paid the Baker Street Irregulars to monitor western DQ locations and follow Randy and crew to their hunting locations.
More seriously, I am amazed at the lengths of misdirected efforts some will go to to figure out the "where's" of successful hunting and completely disregard the necessary "how to" of what it takes to be consistently successful.
Sorry to hear about the difficulty this has placed on your business and hunting opportunities.

On the topic of filming and permitting, there definitely needs to be a major overhaul and reform of the system to make it current to the way videographers are using public lands for filming. If the process were streamlined, predictable, and affordable as some unpassed legislation proposed, I think there would be much more compliance within the industry and more money raised from permit fees.

Currently, aside from the cost of loss of reputation from being found guilty of filming without permits, it is much cheaper for most companies to forgo permits and pay fines for being held accountable than it is to stay legal. This truly is a situation where current law imposes burdonsome and uneccessary regulation that impedes legitimate activity.

Hopefully, the end result of this year's draw is one of those six,eight, zero, super secret bighorn sheep tags with Randy's name on it. Although, my money is on Matthew getting it instead!

 

[publichunter1]

I never thought of all of that being possible. I assumed it was bad enough just being seen in your hunt areas and word spreading. Thanks for all you do Randy for public lands and the hunting public. Sorry you have to deal with that crap.

 

[FAIR CHASE]

Ah, now we know why (or rather how) Greenhorn is so successful

 

[406LIFE]

I guarantee Randy is not the only person dealing with this. There are lots of people that deal with it that aren't even TV personalities, just good hunters. I've had people follow me from town to hunting spots and know others that have had the same thing happen. People cruising trailheads to find your vehicle, trying to recognize stuff in the background of pictures, looking up your draw results, bugging your friends and relatives asking where you hunt, there is no limit to the extent people will go to find out information on where you hunt.

So true. As Gerald said, they want the "where" not the "how" which will never bring them to the recognition they really want of being a good hunter. About the only thing I don't tell people is exactly which tree I was at. The guys on here that I have helped out with locations have been successful, but they also put in the work necessary. You can never replace that.

 

[Europe]

for every action there is a reaction

I am very sorry for all the BS you are dealing with and would like to say hang in there it will get better, but in the sand box you ( and all hunters ) are playing in, I am not sure it will, in fact I am pretty sure it wont.

And that saddens me.

But what pleases me, is the outpouring of help, attempted help, and the overwhelming appreciation for your work, and for you, as a person. When push comes to shove, this helps make all the frustration, irritation, and hard work a bit more palatable.

There is little doubt about how the members of this forum feel about your work, the struggles you endure, and you, as a man.

Continue to move forward, always forward, even if you need to change courses a bit, or adapt ( not accept--adapt ) but always forward

Good luck sir

 

[sdkhunter]

That sucks, I'm sorry you've had to deal with so many headaches! It sounds like to me there may have been mistakes make in some of the FIOA requests against your permits? While people can still request certain information, it's my understanding they cannot release "Personal information about living people andor Information that is confidential by law"... But as you pointed out, sounds like the personnel situation in many of these agencies is a mess so I can only imagine what their training/policy/procedure situation is.... Crappy thing is that the milk has been split at this point.

I'm pretty sure that if he used your personal information (such as SSN) to access you account he violated at a minumium terms/conditions/etc of the UT DNR and possibly even broke a law or two but at this point unless it gets worse, it may be like pouring gas on a fire... Suppose you could reach out to UT DNR and report the access - if nothing else it may propmpt them to update their system to be more secure/private...