Is Counting Inches Killing Deer Hunting? Dec 17, 2018 by Brodie Swisher
- Thread starter cheeser
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I usually hunt a week try to shoot at the biggest buck I can find and if it doesn’t work out I aim to fill my freezer. My dad ten years ago was shaming a buck he killed because it wasn’t as wide as we thought. Started talking to friends took the head to work ended up getting it scored and it netted 206 3/8. Until he got a letter from ndow saying he killed the second biggest deer of the year. He never scored deer in the past just the widest buck won. So I don’t think it’s new it’s just more wide spread because of social media.
Cerebral Stalker
Active member
If every deer isn't a trophy, you're stealing enjoyment from yourself and you need to make a change in how you approach the hunt.
406LIFE
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I am an Official Measurer for B&C and P&Y and see the value in inches as data points for measuring herd health.
However, I see the use of the score to build an ego or determine one's prowess as a hunter as antithetical to the mission and values of the organization originating scores. Shane Mahoney has said much on how media use in hunting has not helped out our cause or furthered our tradition. I think antler scores have been seen in that same light for the reasons I stated. I would like to see people return to the idea of a doe as a trophy in its own right without discounting a 180" mule deer as a trophy as well. Hunting just for the inches will ultimately see the hunter left unsatisfied; yet demonizing the score altogether is shortsighted.
However, I see the use of the score to build an ego or determine one's prowess as a hunter as antithetical to the mission and values of the organization originating scores. Shane Mahoney has said much on how media use in hunting has not helped out our cause or furthered our tradition. I think antler scores have been seen in that same light for the reasons I stated. I would like to see people return to the idea of a doe as a trophy in its own right without discounting a 180" mule deer as a trophy as well. Hunting just for the inches will ultimately see the hunter left unsatisfied; yet demonizing the score altogether is shortsighted.
Bigjay73
Well-known member
I've been hunting over 25 years, and I still get excited when I harvest a 0 inch doe. To each their own, but I vowed a long time ago to never become a trophy hunter.
I think it has had some negative impacts, but I also believe that many good things are slowly coming back to deer hunting despite the horn porn. For instance people going to trad bows at a time when there is a surge of increase technology and overall hype in compound bows. Or people being proud of being a public land hunter when there are consistently more and bigger deer being killed on well managed properties. Maybe it's people I'm around now, but it seems to be more common now to appreciate a kill rather than just horns.
I think the media and it's play on human nature for always wanting more is largely to blame. Also think it's important for young and new hunters to understand that there are personal growth stages in hunting. Even the "good guys" of hunting media and skilled hunters in general pass on legal young males and female animals when presented the opportunity. Not because they are worried about the inches, but because of the fun in the pursuit and reward from the challenge. If led wrong hunters can still take someone else's trophy and make that a baseline for what their trophy needs to be.
I think the media and it's play on human nature for always wanting more is largely to blame. Also think it's important for young and new hunters to understand that there are personal growth stages in hunting. Even the "good guys" of hunting media and skilled hunters in general pass on legal young males and female animals when presented the opportunity. Not because they are worried about the inches, but because of the fun in the pursuit and reward from the challenge. If led wrong hunters can still take someone else's trophy and make that a baseline for what their trophy needs to be.
PrairieHunter
Well-known member
Yep, you see the issue on social media. I am an admin on The Mule Deer Hunter page which has over 30k users and its' amazing how out of control the scoring aspect is. "Guess the score?" ends up in fights nearly every time. You have guys who went on their first guided hunt and shot a really expensive/huge buck pretending to be great hunters when you know if they were dropped in an OTC unit they would not even be able to shoot a doe on their own. Now everyone takes a picture looking at the animal with #respect, take hundreds of photos with different outfits for social media, etc.... Hunters are worse than teenage girls on some of this stuff. It's completely out of control.
On the bright side there is a new generation of hunter who is interested in free range organic meat and could care less about horns. These are kids who never hunted and are now adults who are concerned with where their food comes from. They are going to be the guys and gals who hunt does and rabbits instead of bulls and bucks. They do not need a long range 6.5 CM, no $300 pants, no buck/bull stickers on the back of a jacked up truck, sponsors gear, etc..
Nameless Range
Well-known member
I think inches are a useful metric to describe the antlers of a deer or elk. I find myself doing it, but understand the problems with it.
That said, gross inches are all that matters IMO. A scoring system which deducts score for non-typical points or asymmetry is a useless fetish that penalizes the cooler aspects of antler growth.
I'd love to see the day that some guy shoots what appears to be a world record and refuses to have it scored.
That said, gross inches are all that matters IMO. A scoring system which deducts score for non-typical points or asymmetry is a useless fetish that penalizes the cooler aspects of antler growth.
I'd love to see the day that some guy shoots what appears to be a world record and refuses to have it scored.
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I agree with 406 life demonizing the score all together is shortsighted... but I have never understood why antlers, horns, etc aren't just measured in volume. Who came up with this crazy system where two scorers can come up with different scores, where there are deducts???, etc. etc. Seems like dunking antlers in a tank and measuring the displacement would have been a better, and more accurate system.
SaskHunter
Well-known member
I'm originally from eastern Canada, we don't score deer back home, what's important to us is the dressed weight of the deer. As far as antlers go, everything that is 1 inch and above gets counted. As far as describing a deer you would say this: "I shot a small 8pt", "I shot a big 8pt", etc. No inches and no one cares if it's a 4x5, 4x4 or 3x5.
One of my happiest moment in the field was when I shot an old 8pt bruiser, he weighed 222lb dressed. I couldn't believe it, that deer probably "only" scored 120 inches but it was a true "Quebec brute". It was an old deer with some antler shrinkage due to age but I didn't care, that year I had shot the biggest whitetail in my circle of friends back home and people were more interested in how heavy the deer was. Fast forward to a few years ago, I moved to Saskatchewan. After moving here, I met other hunters and we would talk about deer hunting and almost all of them would diss the does, spikers, "small 6pt" or even my , to me, big 8. Those guys had hunted the best hunting grounds all their lives and simply didn't understand how it was back east. How sometimes, shooting a doe in Quebec is harder than shooting a buck in Saskatchewan.
All the rage over here is "inches", my wife and I have shot big moose and deer here in Saskatchewan including a 180 and 200 inch mule deer and my personal best whitetail at 167 3/8 last year. The monsters we have harvested here are as valuable to me as my first buck, a small 6pt (that "small" 6 pt weighed in at 150lb though but my 167 3/8 only at 145lb). I don't think the scoring system is to blame because it's been there for decades. I think the real problem started with Hunting shows and channels like WildTV and later on the problem exploded on social media. We gave too much importance to rich TV hosts who paid for their time slots on TV, those same guys who could afford the most luxurious hunts or owned large properties where they could manage their herd (and honestly good for them). Social media made it worse, now all those "experts" in your circle of friends or those you encountered at hunting stores, had a platform to spew their BS onto others. Those are the same guys who won't get over the fact that you drive a Ford/Chevy/GMC truck, or give you the "WHAAAATTTTT you shoot a PSE? Come on bro, that's complete garbage", or the good old "I can shoot a coyote 400 yds away while he running full throttle, off hand".
One of my happiest moment in the field was when I shot an old 8pt bruiser, he weighed 222lb dressed. I couldn't believe it, that deer probably "only" scored 120 inches but it was a true "Quebec brute". It was an old deer with some antler shrinkage due to age but I didn't care, that year I had shot the biggest whitetail in my circle of friends back home and people were more interested in how heavy the deer was. Fast forward to a few years ago, I moved to Saskatchewan. After moving here, I met other hunters and we would talk about deer hunting and almost all of them would diss the does, spikers, "small 6pt" or even my , to me, big 8. Those guys had hunted the best hunting grounds all their lives and simply didn't understand how it was back east. How sometimes, shooting a doe in Quebec is harder than shooting a buck in Saskatchewan.
All the rage over here is "inches", my wife and I have shot big moose and deer here in Saskatchewan including a 180 and 200 inch mule deer and my personal best whitetail at 167 3/8 last year. The monsters we have harvested here are as valuable to me as my first buck, a small 6pt (that "small" 6 pt weighed in at 150lb though but my 167 3/8 only at 145lb). I don't think the scoring system is to blame because it's been there for decades. I think the real problem started with Hunting shows and channels like WildTV and later on the problem exploded on social media. We gave too much importance to rich TV hosts who paid for their time slots on TV, those same guys who could afford the most luxurious hunts or owned large properties where they could manage their herd (and honestly good for them). Social media made it worse, now all those "experts" in your circle of friends or those you encountered at hunting stores, had a platform to spew their BS onto others. Those are the same guys who won't get over the fact that you drive a Ford/Chevy/GMC truck, or give you the "WHAAAATTTTT you shoot a PSE? Come on bro, that's complete garbage", or the good old "I can shoot a coyote 400 yds away while he running full throttle, off hand".
onpoint
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more. I have seen too many elk hunters with a beautiful bull that didn't make "X" number of inches, be all like "Meh, it'll do"....
I happen to know a BC scorer quite well. I told him my opinion on "deductions" - he told me his opinion on my opinion.
I also told him, in the unrealistic event I ever killed a "book critter", I would not have it scored - his opinion differed with me on that one too
.He is an absolutely great guy.
It ruined my interest in deer hunting. I chased that bone year after year and eventually on the farm I hunt (yes its private as most land is in my area) the deer just didn't get much bigger. If all you care about is shooting a bigger buck each time you harvest one...it wont be that many years before you stop harvesting one because you cant find one.
Its funny but I have reverted back to more bird hunting as I enjoy the social side and the post harvest critics are minimal. I will hunt out west but one trip annually keeps the experience unique and fun for me. Anyhow, too each their own. Get out there and hunt...and better yet take a kid with you!
Its funny but I have reverted back to more bird hunting as I enjoy the social side and the post harvest critics are minimal. I will hunt out west but one trip annually keeps the experience unique and fun for me. Anyhow, too each their own. Get out there and hunt...and better yet take a kid with you!
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
I have friends just like the woman in that story. Why they never enter their animal that scores "XXX" in the book isn't really because they have an personal issue with measuring systems or organizations..
HighDesertSage
Well-known member
To each their own, I'm not big on score, but I do put alot of pressure on myself to harvest mature animals, and strive to do so.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Guilty Your Honor...
sbhooper
Well-known member
I laugh at all of the people that only want to go shoot a big buck and get the bragging pictures etc. It makes it real easy for me, as I get all the access that I want to fill my freezers and my friends' freezers with does. I have nothing to prove, anymore, and just enjoy going out and killing deer to keep the freezer full. I have never found a good recipe for antler stew.
The forums, tv programs and magazines that have promoted only trophy hunting (Eastman's etc.), are turning hunting into a rich-man's sport, as people are willing to throw money at permits, leases etc., strictly to have a chance at some antlers and those without the money, are left without. We are becoming Europe, both in politics and the hunting fields.
The forums, tv programs and magazines that have promoted only trophy hunting (Eastman's etc.), are turning hunting into a rich-man's sport, as people are willing to throw money at permits, leases etc., strictly to have a chance at some antlers and those without the money, are left without. We are becoming Europe, both in politics and the hunting fields.
The same conversation could be had about hunting for "mature" animals. A lot of people are too ashamed to shoot a 1.5 year old that they would be happy with for fear of being judged by others.
I've also noticed that on the last day of season, those young deer often become "management bucks."
I've also noticed that on the last day of season, those young deer often become "management bucks."
Hem
Well-known member
I like understanding the size of racks based on score.Not an ego thing just a gauge.Its a means for me to judge a quality animal if that is what i am after.Book animals are not what I seek,just something bigger than what i have in some cases. Guilty of hunting horns,but happy with whatever if i need the meat. This past year i passed on quality mule deer admittedly, but only slightly regret not filling a tag. Didn't need the meat. It annoys me more when people kill more animals than they need.
PrairieHunter
Well-known member
It's interesting how different regions look at things differently. I remember a friend from back east telling me how much his deer weighed apparently weight is one way they look at deer instead of measuring horns.
I am most impressed with shooting old animals as opposed to ones with big horns. Shooting an old smart buck that's 5-6 years old is a challenge no matter if it's a whitey or mule and no matter the state.
I am most impressed with shooting old animals as opposed to ones with big horns. Shooting an old smart buck that's 5-6 years old is a challenge no matter if it's a whitey or mule and no matter the state.
