I can't believe they can't fill these positions!

[Gus Chiggins]

I'm not sure the idea of giving wardens some state land passes the constitutional muster of ensuring the maximum return to the trust. A large number of wardens get their housing provided, or a stipend for housing as well as their salary, iirc.

The last couple of budgets had big line items for new warden housing as well as newer equipment.

The job posting's FAQs includes this:

Is housing provided to wardens?

Generally no. FWP does have very limited agency owned housing arrangements.

Warden Hiring | Montana FWP

Game Wardens are sworn and commissioned Peace Officers within their scope of authority.

fwp.mt.gov

 

[Ben Lamb]

You’re talking about states other than MT, right? I’m not aware of any FWP employee housing outside of maybe the fish hatcheries.

Sheridan has a warden's residence. I'd have to dig through the budgets to find the others. I thought Bozeman had housing too?

 

[Ben Lamb]

You’re talking about states other than MT, right? I’m not aware of any FWP employee housing outside of maybe the fish hatcheries.

Very well could be wrong.

Yes, other states (WY) do this, and MT did at some point, but clearly my info is off.

 

[WanderWoman]

Very well could be wrong.

Yes, other states (WY) do this, and MT did at some point, but clearly my info is off.

Yes. A friend of mine who worked for FWP left for WY recently. He said that his take home will be nearly double what he made in MT and that in larger urban areas, WY offers a $1200/mo stipend for housing or for wardens specifically, housing itself. The latter could be good or bad I guess.

 

[trb]

Very well could be wrong.

Yes, other states (WY) do this, and MT did at some point, but clearly my info is off.

CO does for some depending on location. I know of 2 that live on State Wildlife Areas. Others get housing stipends I believe.

 

[Jamen]

I work for local govt. We struggle to get applicants. As stated above the benefits don't pay the bills. We are slowly getting to be competitive in wages and you can see a slow increase in applications. But most taxpayers don't want to see wages increase but they expect the same level if not better of services. I saw the long-term picture when i started at 24. There is security knowing you have good health care and a decent retirement when you're done. That being said my wage alone is definitely not enough to pay my 95k in student loans i have and buy a house in today's market. Thus, i started a small business and work in my off time from my 9-5. Burnout is real but it is what it is. Hopefully this year a house is in the playing cards at being feasible. I enjoy the work i do and could have left for more money. There will be a tipping point here in my near future. I'd like to actually start living before i am too old and not work every day.

 

[YukonGold]

But most taxpayers don't want to see wages increase but they expect the same level if not better of services.

This is the problem right here. People think government employees are lesser people, not deserving of a living wage, and then set ridiculously high expectations for them.

Don't we want good, skilled government employees to stay on the job? Or do we want to continually burn them out and pay them pennies, so that they quit, and are replaced by people who are less skilled, so we complain about them more...oh wait, nevermind, if people want to continue to whine about how useless government is, then that's exactly the road we're on...

 

[Nick87]

My wife talks me off the "many other things i'd be much happier doing for much less money" ledge constantly and reminds me of the "free time" I have with my current job. Doesn't mean I don't dream of having less stress and responsibility ha

As someone who took a job with more time to myself but less money its not all its cracked up to be either. Don't get me wrong time is nice and money isn't everything. But I feel like I went from one extreme to the other. I've got lots of time but as we all know everything takes money. Trying to find that balance is the tricky part imo.

 

[Deleted member 52098]

As someone who took a job with more time to myself but less money its not all its cracked up to be either. Don't get me wrong time is nice and money isn't everything. But I feel like I went from one extreme to the other. I've got lots of time but as we all know everything takes money. Trying to find that balance is the tricky part imo.

yeah, I think thats what she tries to remind me of each time... bc I think I would also be tempted to swing far in the other direction. an 'overcorrection', if you will

 

[fmnjr]

If I had to run a game warden beat the litter bug citations on my route would be sky high! Interactions with those that have firearms on the other hand would be not so.

 

[F250]

Did it for 36 years. Interesting comments in this thread. I’m drawing 3 pensions bumping six figures. Work hard, volunteer for everything, catch bad guys.

 

[TOGIE]

As someone who took a job with more time to myself but less money its not all its cracked up to be either. Don't get me wrong time is nice and money isn't everything. But I feel like I went from one extreme to the other. I've got lots of time but as we all know everything takes money. Trying to find that balance is the tricky part imo.

There’s just so many variables though, unique to every individual and situation.

Does one switch jobs for time? Or for simple job satisfaction?

I think a lot of people that are very very rewarded with their work would tell you how genuinely unbothered and even very happy they they are even though the budget doesn’t have much wiggle room. I definitely know a few.

I definitely don’t feel like I can say the same regarding genuine happiness when it comes to people that have all the money.

Different for everyone.

 

[Sytes]

When viewing our Federal Congress... It turns into a polarized fight when GAO releases the absurd auditing discrepancies. No Congressional accountability and all blame yet, little is done.
I don't know the State auditing depth though, is it well involved? Respectable?

Take for instance:

The Conservation Stamp for State trust land that publicly noted, generated $1.2 mil in 2022. This went towards, "Education" and "other institutions".
Is there any room for pulling $ for the enforcement involved with the lands enhanced/increased use of every aspect from cycling to 4x4 activity?
What encompasses, "Other Institutions"?

***

What do we have currently? Approx 100 Wardens? (Including Captains, etc).

Paid housing would aid with value to offset lower wages.
State Congress add an Enhanced FWP LEO Pension, etc equivalent to Montana Sheriff's SRS, that would help retention, if slightly.

Raise FWP Resident license/permit fees. With a
% to increased Warden salary and recruitment.

 

[Nick87]

There’s just so many variables though, unique to every individual and situation.

Does one switch jobs for time? Or for simple job satisfaction?

I think a lot of people that are very very rewarded with their work would tell you how genuinely unbothered and even very happy they they are even though the budget doesn’t have much wiggle room. I definitely know a few.

I definitely don’t feel like I can say the same regarding genuine happiness when it comes to people that have all the money.

Different for everyone.

Yah it definitely is. I did those hours for so long I'm having a hard time adjusting. Both financially and mentally I guess. When I'm off now I feel like I'm doing something wrong like i could be working or lazy. Sounds dumb but that's how it is.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don't know the State auditing depth though, is it well involved? Respectable?

Take for instance:

The Conservation Stamp for State trust land that publicly noted, generated $1.2 mil in 2022. This went towards, "Education" and "other institutions".
Is there any room for pulling $ for the enforcement involved with the lands enhanced/increased use of every aspect from cycling to 4x4 activity?
What encompasses, "Other Institutions"?

***

What do we have currently? Approx 100 Wardens? (Including Captains, etc).

Paid housing would aid with value to offset lower wages.
State Congress add an Enhanced FWP LEO Pension, etc equivalent to Montana Sheriff's SRS, that would help retention, if slightly.

Raise FWP Resident license/permit fees. With a
% to increased Warden salary and recruitment.

the DNRC recreation/hunting/fishing/trapping stamps are to pay for the use since trust lands are to be used to bring in the best return for the School Trust. That funding is simply passed through FWP's hands to the DNRC.

Enforcement is a separate line item, but limited federal funds can be used to help pay for wages without reducing law enforcement duties to match PR funding priorities. The Leg tried this a few sessions ago and it was a bit of a trainwreck.

FWP as the case example though has plenty of cash & the revenue stream currently to increase warden pay. The issue then becomes pay raises across the LEO spectrum and how you pay for that. The salary issue for state employees should be easier to navigate at the legislative level and the agencies likely need more discretion here, but to raise the pay of just wardens has been verboten within state gov't and used as the excuse as to why they can't increase just warden pay. It also would legitimately cause issues with the biologists, etc within the agency is wardens suddenly get a 30% boost, etc.

It all gets complex quickly.

 

[Djfan]

Right, and there's going to be some hiring problems with teachers too.

But, hey, pay a teacher less than what they can make at McDonalds, I mean all they're doing is educating your kids.

23 years this year. Just broke $60k, and I have a masters degree.

 

[SAJ-99]

Raise FWP Resident license/permit fees.

 

[SAJ-99]

the DNRC recreation/hunting/fishing/trapping stamps are to pay for the use since trust lands are to be used to bring in the best return for the School Trust. That funding is simply passed through FWP's hands to the DNRC.

Enforcement is a separate line item, but limited federal funds can be used to help pay for wages without reducing law enforcement duties to match PR funding priorities. The Leg tried this a few sessions ago and it was a bit of a trainwreck.

FWP as the case example though has plenty of cash & the revenue stream currently to increase warden pay. The issue then becomes pay raises across the LEO spectrum and how you pay for that. The salary issue for state employees should be easier to navigate at the legislative level and the agencies likely need more discretion here, but to raise the pay of just wardens has been verboten within state gov't and used as the excuse as to why they can't increase just warden pay. It also would legitimately cause issues with the biologists, etc within the agency is wardens suddenly get a 30% boost, etc.

It all gets complex quickly.

Just going to throw this out there...don't judge...how about a marijuana tax?

 

[YukonGold]

Just going to throw this out there...don't judge...how about a marijuana tax?

ooh oooh...and then earmarking it for FWP, but then once voters approve it, passing a law that enacts the tax but then doesn't actually give it to FWP? [edited to better reflect what actually happened]

 

[Sytes]

Just going to throw this out there...don't judge...how about a marijuana tax?